Help with blazon

Heraldry in the United States
User avatar
Nicholas Hutchinson
Posts: 38
Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 19:39
Location: Utah

Help with blazon

Postby Nicholas Hutchinson » 30 Apr 2015, 22:16

Hello All,

Would love to have a little help. I am trying to get a proper blazon for the attached arms. Any ideas?

John Tiny Belliston Arms Lt Grn Blck Small.png


Thanks in advance!!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Family is our Strength"

Ryan Shuflin
Posts: 487
Joined: 26 Jul 2012, 13:00
Location: Germany

Re: Help with blazon

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 30 Apr 2015, 23:37

I will give it a shot.
Vert, a broken cog Argent, overall Argent a crab Sable

Crest: On a mural crown with three towers Or a raven Sable legged Or and holding a runestone inscribed with a haglaz Sable.

The crest is a bit strange. I don't think that any bird has yellow legs and a black beak (not that realist colours are important in heraldry) but the yellow legs with the black claws are strange.

Also, I wasn't sure how to describe the cog either, I almost described it as a St. Katharine's wheel.

User avatar
Chris Green
Posts: 2681
Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 13:06
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Re: Help with blazon

Postby Chris Green » 01 May 2015, 07:20

Give it another shot Ryan. There is per chevron in there somewhere.

The broken wheel has most of the elements of a Catherine Wheel, but the lugs on the rim (which don't line up with the spokes incidentally) are odd. I don't think it would work as a cog-wheel as another cog-wheel couldn't mesh with it.

The bird is clearly meant to be some sort of corvid (probably a raven as you suggest Ryan), but I can't find any with yellow legs. Choughs have red legs but are much more delicate, and have quite narrow red or yellow beaks.
Chris Green
IAAH President

Apohypaton

User avatar
Torsten Laneryd
Posts: 88
Joined: 12 Sep 2012, 22:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Help with blazon

Postby Torsten Laneryd » 01 May 2015, 09:16

I do not like two kinds of Argent in the same shield.

User avatar
Chris Green
Posts: 2681
Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 13:06
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Re: Help with blazon

Postby Chris Green » 01 May 2015, 09:31

Torsten Laneryd wrote:I do not like two kinds of Argent in the same shield.


I heartily agree. As it is painted the (Catherine) wheel would have to be blazoned gray, which begs two questions: is gray a colour or a metal? and indeed is gray a heraldic tincture at all? It is occasionally used in US military heraldry, but virtually never elsewhere.

It has been suggested that silver and white should be considered two different tinctures, in which case I suppose the wheel might be considered silver.
Chris Green
IAAH President

Apohypaton

User avatar
Ton de Witte
Posts: 1031
Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 21:23
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Help with blazon

Postby Ton de Witte » 01 May 2015, 10:28

Silver and white are the same why should they be different ?
Grey is a sort of stain in German heraldry names Asgrau if I remember corectly.
Ton de Witte
IAAH secretary

User avatar
Torsten Laneryd
Posts: 88
Joined: 12 Sep 2012, 22:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Help with blazon

Postby Torsten Laneryd » 01 May 2015, 10:59

Ton de Witte wrote: Grey is a sort of stain in German heraldry names Asgrau if I remember corectly.
I think they call it Aschfarbe and is unusual and seen nonheraldic. Only the families Aschau in Bayern and Osterhausen in Thueringen are known in Lexikon der Heraldik by Gert Oswald.

User avatar
Chas Charles-Dunne
Posts: 624
Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 15:48
Location: England - TL 80102 93862
Contact:

Re: Help with blazon

Postby Chas Charles-Dunne » 01 May 2015, 11:33

I have always referred to it as Ashengrau.
Regards
Chas
IAAH Fellow

Image

User avatar
Chris Green
Posts: 2681
Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 13:06
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Re: Help with blazon

Postby Chris Green » 01 May 2015, 11:33

Ton de Witte wrote:Silver and white are the same why should they be different ?


They are usually considered to be the same, but we have seen examples of arms where a snow-coloured mountain-top had white snow, but other "argent" elements were depicted as silver:

http://amateurheralds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=548

1st Signals Reg't and 9th Assault Para Reg't.
Chris Green
IAAH President

Apohypaton

User avatar
Torsten Laneryd
Posts: 88
Joined: 12 Sep 2012, 22:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Help with blazon

Postby Torsten Laneryd » 01 May 2015, 12:34

Chas Charles-Dunne wrote:I have always referred to it as Ashengrau.

Yes that must be clearer to those who are in doubt what colour ashes are.

Maybe You lost a c and mean Aschengrau?
Last edited by Torsten Laneryd on 01 May 2015, 13:11, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “United States Heraldry”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest