DARs Completed in 2017

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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: DARs Completed in 2017

Postby Michael F. McCartney » 05 Feb 2017, 07:56

Nothing in the linked AR entry suggests that these arms were granted by the Canadian government - if they were, please consider my comments as addressing a hypothetical use of a Canadian Loyalist coronet in assumed arms.

Since the Loyalist coronets were invented by the Canadian Heraldic Authority and are granted by the CHA, is it appropriate for those assuming arms - either in Canada, or in other countries - to use those specific Canadian coronets without the approval of the CHA?

I'm not questioning this individual's right to commemorate his Loyalist roots in some way, only whether it is proper to use this specific symbol created and granted by the CHA without their permission. I don't know if it raises any "intellectual property" issues; but to me, it's like using any military or civilian decoration designed and awarded by any government on a DIY basis.
Michael F. McCartney
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Chris Green
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Re: DARs Completed in 2017

Postby Chris Green » 05 Feb 2017, 08:56

I'm not questioning this individual's right to commemorate his Loyalist roots in some way, only whether it is proper to use this specific symbol created and granted by the CHA without their permission.


Michael:

You raise an interesting point. I am unaware of any "intellectual property" arguments against the use of a particular charge or element in an achievement. Heraldry has, thank heavens, been largely spared the depredations of the legal profession, except in a few cases where the arms were registered as the copyrighted logos of companies. However, anyone who seeks a grant of arms from an established heraldic authority must acquiesce in their rules as to what may and may not be included. For example, the College of Arms would never allow the use of the "royal" open helm, nor mantling or and ermine. Nor, for example, would it countenance the inclusion of an inescutcheon argent a cross gules except as an augmentation of honour. Thus the CHA might indeed cavil at the use of the loyalist coronet, if they reserve its use for those who they consider qualify for such a distinction. Mr Pashko is not however a Canadian citizen as far as I know, nor does he reside within the CHA's jurisdiction. So there is not a lot the CHA can do.

PS: I have to say that the original blazon which was passed by the Board in December stated merely a crest coronet, though the draft emblazonment does seem to show a loyalist coronet.
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Terry Baldwin
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Re: DARs Completed in 2017

Postby Terry Baldwin » 05 Feb 2017, 15:31

That was my error in stating 'crest coronet', I should have looked at it twice. I did some research myself and saw no reason to not use the Loyalist coronet as the client has family history on his mother's side going back to Canada and the group of people that left the US at the end of the revolution.

If I have missed some legal or heraldic rule then the issue will be revisited.
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Terry Baldwin
IAAH Vice President: Heraldic Design

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Terry Baldwin
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Re: DARs Completed in 2017

Postby Terry Baldwin » 05 Feb 2017, 15:40

I will be reviewing the motto of McNulty, far as I know it is supposed to est not et.
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Terry Baldwin
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Chris Green
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Re: DARs Completed in 2017

Postby Chris Green » 05 Feb 2017, 16:34

Terry Baldwin wrote:That was my error in stating 'crest coronet', I should have looked at it twice. I did some research myself and saw no reason to not use the Loyalist coronet as the client has family history on his mother's side going back to Canada and the group of people that left the US at the end of the revolution. If I have missed some legal or heraldic rule then the issue will be revisited.


I don't think we should be overly worried. Mr P does not live in Canada and does have family links to the loyalists.
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Terry Baldwin
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Re: DARs Completed in 2017

Postby Terry Baldwin » 05 Feb 2017, 22:59

McNulty Final 300.jpg


Corrected McNulty Motto.
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Terry Baldwin
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Arthur Radburn
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Re: DARs Completed in 2017

Postby Arthur Radburn » 06 Feb 2017, 09:07

Chris Green wrote:I don't think we should be overly worried. Mr P does not live in Canada and does have family links to the loyalists.

My thoughts too. The loyalist coronet is not a status symbol, it merely records an aspect of the armiger's ancestry -- rather like using a thistle to denote Scottish ancestry, or a shamrock to show Irish roots.
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Arthur Radburn
IAAH Vice-President : Heraldic Education

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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: DARs Completed in 2017

Postby Michael F. McCartney » 09 Feb 2017, 07:10

I can follow the logic, but FWIW, I don't agree with it. There is, to my mind, a world of difference between using essentially generic symbols commonly associated with one's roots - saltires, roses, thistles, or whatever - vs awarding oneself a specific and unique heraldic emblem designed in recent times by a foreign government to signify a particular status in their system or history, without their approval, even if one would arguably qualify for that symbol if petitioning for a grant from the folks who invented and regularly grant said symbol.

Others may - and clearly do ;) - feel otherwise; just saying...

And the arms are otherwise quite nice!
Michael F. McCartney
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JMcMillan
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Re: DARs Completed in 2017

Postby JMcMillan » 10 Feb 2017, 02:23

Perhaps it would make sense for a non-Canadian who wishes to use one of the loyalist coronets with assumed arms to write to the CHA and ask their view of the matter. They need not be bound by the CHA's opinion, but it might be worth knowing what it is.
Joseph McMillan
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Terry Baldwin
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Re: DARs Completed in 2017

Postby Terry Baldwin » 20 Feb 2017, 15:39

Jachim final 300.jpg


Rodger Jachim a resident of Middleton, Idaho, United States of America.

Blazon: Azure on a Bend Argent between in chief a harvesting Scythe and in base a Kentucky Rifle Argent a Jachim Cherry Vine fructed proper.

Crest: From a Torse Argent and Azure a Rocky Mountain Elk's Head couped proper.

Mantling: Azure doubled Argent.

Motto: Immer Bereit (Always Ready)

Herald: Terry Baldwin

Artist: Danilo Martens

Date: Arms assumed 20 February 2017
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Terry Baldwin
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