mystery (to me at least) Danish coat or arms

Nordic heraldry (Denmark, Faroe Islands, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden)
Paul A. Schutler
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mystery (to me at least) Danish coat or arms

Postby Paul A. Schutler » 17 Jul 2018, 18:09

This coat of arms is on a pair of candlesticks dated 1887

On the other side are the initials 'H & B' (so a wedding gift perhaps)

The coat of arms measures 20mm from base to the top of the coronet/crown and is cast in iron.

I'm assuming it's Danish based on the 'af' preceding the dated of 1887, I think this is the Danish way of writing a date, I'm probably wrong.

I'm very keen to learn who the arms belong to and then of course who the initials are.

any help gratefully received

Paul
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Chris Green
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Re: mystery (to me at least) Danish coat or arms

Postby Chris Green » 17 Jul 2018, 21:37

"Af" in those days could be Swedish or Norwegian as well as Danish. But it means "of", most often like "de" or "von". That doesn't sit right with a date; a name, yes, a date, no.

I have another suggestion. "Af" might be a shortened form of "affianced" or "affiancé", i.e. "engaged" (to be married). H and B being engaged rather than married. If that were the case, the candlesticks could have originated in many parts of Europe, but not Scandinavia where it would be "förlova/forlove".
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Jeremy Fox
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Re: mystery (to me at least) Danish coat or arms

Postby Jeremy Fox » 18 Jul 2018, 00:12

The coronets, at least, are consistent with the arms of a north-European (Danish, German, Dutch etc.) greve or count.

Paul A. Schutler
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Re: mystery (to me at least) Danish coat or arms

Postby Paul A. Schutler » 18 Jul 2018, 09:05

sorry, I should have said the overall decoration of the sticks is overtly Scandinavian or otherwise known as the 'viking style'. it's the coat of arms that is the key to my unlocking more about them.

Paul A. Schutler
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Re: mystery (to me at least) Danish coat or arms

Postby Paul A. Schutler » 18 Jul 2018, 09:12

the decoration around the top of the candleholder is as follows;

'H & B af (coat of arms) 1887'
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Chris Green
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Re: mystery (to me at least) Danish coat or arms

Postby Chris Green » 18 Jul 2018, 10:32

I (candle)stick by my theory.
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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: mystery (to me at least) Danish coat or arms

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 18 Jul 2018, 13:28

I think the first step is to try and blazon the arms. Fortunately, they aren't something common like a lion rampant, unfortunately, the charge isn't clear. Is that a castle or some other building?

Also, is it possible that the mullets had hatching marks, because otherwise they would be violating the rule of tincture.

Also, I google af 1887 and got some results that look scandinavian. In that case, it has to do with a chamber music club, presumably founded in 1887, or perhaps it means something like "Class of 1887"

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Arthur Radburn
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Re: mystery (to me at least) Danish coat or arms

Postby Arthur Radburn » 18 Jul 2018, 16:37

Ryan Shuflin wrote:I think the first step is to try and blazon the arms. Fortunately, they aren't something common like a lion rampant, unfortunately, the charge isn't clear. Is that a castle or some other building?
What I see is either :

1 - Azure chapé Or, in base a tower Or and in chief two mullets -----; or
2 - Per chevron throughout Or and Azure, in chief two mullets ----- and in base a tower Or.

It's possible that the tower is charged with something above the door. Or it may just be artistic decoration.
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Jeremy Fox
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Re: mystery (to me at least) Danish coat or arms

Postby Jeremy Fox » 18 Jul 2018, 17:24

Whatever that "tower" may be, it seems to be standing on waves. It also looks to me that it is topped with a coronet, rather than battlements.

However, if I am wrong on both of those, then the arms may be akin to those of the Swedish Ridderstedt family. Wikithingy gives a couple of examples - the tinctures of the field are red over gold, rather than gold over blue, and the number of mullets varies - but they're close enough to be confusing in the proverbial charge across a foggy field in Flanders.

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Chris Green
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Re: mystery (to me at least) Danish coat or arms

Postby Chris Green » 18 Jul 2018, 17:31

Well done Ryan! There is indeed a Chamber Music Society "af 1887" (founded in 1887) in Copenhagen. My Danish is nil, but it is cousin to Swedish and therefore I can decipher most of their web-site. One of the society's early leading lights was Anton Bloch and another was Julius Borup, but I can find no arms linked to either name.

Both the society and its leader have Facebook, so I shall contact them and ask them if they recognise the candlesticks, or the arms.
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