Princess Madeleine of Sweden

Nordic heraldry (Denmark, Faroe Islands, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden)
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Chris Green
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Princess Madeleine of Sweden

Postby Chris Green » 17 May 2013, 14:56

Princess Madeleine is shortly to marry her American/British fiance Chris O'Neill. It has just been confirmed that, not unexpectedly, he will not be made a Swedish Prince, nor Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland, the counties of which his future wife is Duchess. It is thus very unlikely that we shall see a CoA for him. The couple's monogram has been designed and can be seen here:

http://www.kungahuset.se/brollopet/brudparet/monogram.4.4ea495e313c19c119aa493e.html

As a US citizen who intends to continue to live and work in the States, a royal title would have been an inconvenience (indeed the King of Sweden might have opined that a Swedish royal title and a "proper job" were mutually exclusive). It should also be noted that the King's sisters' husbands did not receive Swedish titles or CoAs.
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Re: Princess Madeleine of Sweden

Postby Marcus Karlsson » 17 May 2013, 17:52

Well I guess it also played a role that as a US Citizen Mr O'Niell is prohibited to accept foreign titles. But anyhow the case of Prince Daniel one can argue was a special one as he married the future Queen of Sweden, which don't apply to Chris O'Niell.

But there are naturally nothing that prevents Mr O'Niell to become an armiger, but I doubt that he is so inclined.

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Re: Princess Madeleine of Sweden

Postby Chris Green » 17 May 2013, 18:04

True Marcus. Of course had he chosen he could have been granted Swedish citizenship, given up his US citizenship - and his career, and in return become a Prince and a Duke. Once upon a time there would have been no argument about which the happy groom would have chosen. In the 21st century priorities are different.

As regards a CoA, as a non-Swede and a non-member of the Swedish Court, he would have have no claim on an official Swedish CoA. A non-official Swedish CoA or a US (non-official) CoA might I suppose be arranged informally but would be assumed and the Swedish Court might well not recognise it, so what would be the point? Of course he was born in the UK, so he could quite properly seek a grant of arms from the College of Arms. But don't hold your breath!
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Re: Princess Madeleine of Sweden

Postby Jeremy Kudlick » 17 May 2013, 20:45

The relevent portions of the Constitution of the United States read,
Article I, Section 9 wrote:No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

Article I, Section 10 wrote:No state shall ... grant any title of nobility.

The first clause of Section 9 and the relevent part of Section 10 are straightforward; the US Government and all States are prohibited from granting any titles of nobility.

The second clause of Section 9 is open to interpretation, specifically "no person holding any office of profit or trust under them". The true definition "office of profit or trust" is any government office to which a person is appointed by executive order, such as the Cabinet-level positions and their direct subordinates. That definition has been expanded within the US to include all civilian employees of the Federal Government and all members of the military. However, it cannot be generally expanded to include all US citizens.

However, I may not have knowledge of any laws passed which have extended such prohibition to the whole of the US citizenry, and I don't currently have time to search the US Code for any such laws. If no such law has been passed, and Mr. O'Neill is not in the employ of the US Government, there may not be a prohibition against him accepting a title if offered one.
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Re: Princess Madeleine of Sweden

Postby JMcMillan » 17 May 2013, 21:49

Jeremy Kudlick wrote:The second clause of Section 9 is open to interpretation, specifically "no person holding any office of profit or trust under them". The true definition "office of profit or trust" is any government office to which a person is appointed by executive order, such as the Cabinet-level positions and their direct subordinates. That definition has been expanded within the US to include all civilian employees of the Federal Government and all members of the military. However, it cannot be generally expanded to include all US citizens.

However, I may not have knowledge of any laws passed which have extended such prohibition to the whole of the US citizenry, and I don't currently have time to search the US Code for any such laws. If no such law has been passed, and Mr. O'Neill is not in the employ of the US Government, there may not be a prohibition against him accepting a title if offered one.


No, you are correct that there is no impediment in American law to a private American citizen accepting a foreign title of nobility. A constitutional amendment to that effect was once proposed but it was never ratified.

A small quibble: the line between who holds an office of P or T and who is merely a federal employee is not well defined, but the concept of the OP&T has always reached down to much lower levels than just the immediate subordinates of cabinet secretaries. For example, every federal judge is an officer of the United States, and by definition their office is one of trust and profit (they draw a salary). So are U.S. attorneys and their deputies, U.S. marshals and their deputies, commissioned officers of the armed forces, public health service, and foreign service, and many others. The one thing that is absolutely clear is that membership in the Senate or House of Representatives is not an office (of P or T or otherwise) within the meaning of the Constitutional prohibition.

But none of that, of course, bears on whether Mr. O'Neill could accept a Swedish title; he could. In fact, he could accept such a title and then subsequently be appointed or elected to federal office without any Constitutional impediments.
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Re: Princess Madeleine of Sweden

Postby Jonathan Webster » 18 May 2013, 00:36

Any word on whether he'll be admitted to the Order of the Seraphim? Unlikely I know, but the statutes of the Order require the knight to have or be given Arms (or a monogram).

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Re: Princess Madeleine of Sweden

Postby Chris Green » 18 May 2013, 08:59

Any word on whether he'll be admitted to the Order of the Seraphim?


No. I think it unlikely though. The King's brother-in-law, Mr Tord Magnuson (husband of Princess Christina) has the King's Medal in Gold (12th size) and is a Commander of the Vasa Order.
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Re: Princess Madeleine of Sweden

Postby Marcus Karlsson » 18 May 2013, 09:09

Chris Green wrote:True Marcus. Of course had he chosen he could have been granted Swedish citizenship, given up his US citizenship - and his career, and in return become a Prince and a Duke. Once upon a time there would have been no argument about which the happy groom would have chosen. In the 21st century priorities are different.[/qoute]

True that, but it seems that i was a bit sweeping, As explained in later posts the prohibition seems to be restricted to those US citizens employed or holding federal/public Offices. But anyhow there are no preceedence in creating tha husband of a Swedish Princess s Duke or anything else. The case of Prince Daniel beeing rather special as noted in my former post.

As regards a CoA, as a non-Swede and a non-member of the Swedish Court, he would have have no claim on an official Swedish CoA. A non-official Swedish CoA or a US (non-official) CoA might I suppose be arranged informally but would be assumed and the Swedish Court might well not recognise it, so what would be the point? Of course he was born in the UK, so he could quite properly seek a grant of arms from the College of Arms. But don't hold your breath!


Of cause he will not be able to use anything inclining Royal status, but if he wanted could obtain plain "burgher" Arms. I agree with you Chirs that this event seems rather unlikely. But Chris I think you are still thinking in British heraldic practices. In Sweden one can hardly speak of official and non-official Arms as regarding Personal Arms, as there are no authority granting Arms to private persons all these are in British parlance assumed and non-official. However there are regulated who can use noble and royal attributes as Crowns or Supporters.

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Re: Princess Madeleine of Sweden

Postby Chris Green » 18 May 2013, 10:25

But Chris I think you are still thinking in British heraldic practices. In Sweden one can hardly speak of official and non-official Arms as regarding Personal Arms, as there are no authority granting Arms to private persons all these are in British parlance assumed and non-official. However there are regulated who can use noble and royal attributes as Crowns or Supporters.


We are in fact talking the same (heraldic) language, though perhaps I was not entirely clear. When I referred to "official" Swedish arms I meant those regulated arms that are used by members of the Royal Court. Mr O'Neill will not be a member of the Royal Court, so does not fall within the purview of the Court's heraldic regulation.

As a non-Swede it would clearly be inappropriate for him to assume arms that could be construed as "Swedish". As a US citizen he could of course assume any arms he chose (with or without the assistance of AHS - or IAAH for that matter!). As an English-born person he would however be able to receive a grant of arms - and that CoA might refer to his US and Swedish (Austrian for that matter) links (though I am sure the College of Arms would be careful to ensure that the design did not pretend to be officially Swedish by its use of charges e.g. from the Swedish royal arms).
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Re: Princess Madeleine of Sweden

Postby Chris Green » 18 May 2013, 10:50

It might be as well, at this point, to show everyone Princess Madeleine's CoA, which are the Royal Arms with those of her Duchies at Q3.

Image

The CoA is encircled by the Order of the Seraphim with its distinctive light blue band.
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