Arms of Dutch Basilicas

Marcus Karlsson
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Arms of Dutch Basilicas

Postby Marcus Karlsson » 29 Oct 2016, 10:43

In the Netherlands there has developed a practice regarding the Arms of Basilicas to display the Ombrellino in Saltire with a Tintinnabulum on a Chief. Under this a field per pale dexter with the Symbol of the Saint to which the Basilica is dedicated and on the sinister the Arms of the Locality of the Basilica. If the Basilica also is a Cathedral a Mitre is added over the Ombrellino and Tintinnabulum. A Motto Scroll is also mostly to be seen.

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St Pancratius Basilica in Tubbergen.

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St Walburgis Basilica in Arnhem.

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Chris Green
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Re: Arms of Dutch Basilicas

Postby Chris Green » 29 Oct 2016, 11:05

Such minor basilicas seem to be a sort of promotion for an otherwise ordinary Roman Catholic church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_basilica
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Torsten Laneryd
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Re: Arms of Dutch Basilicas

Postby Torsten Laneryd » 29 Oct 2016, 13:01

It does not look like a chief to me, nor is it slightly per fess enhanced. May a heraldic artist take such free choices, or isn't the blazon a chief :?:

Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Arms of Dutch Basilicas

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 21 Sep 2018, 09:48

Torsten Laneryd wrote:It does not look like a chief to me, nor is it slightly per fess enhanced. May a heraldic artist take such free choices, or isn't the blazon a chief :?:



It looks like three arms quartered together in an unusual way to me. From an artistic view, I don't think it was a good idea to make the chief so big. After all, the bottom half is already smaller, due to the shape of the shield, and then contains two designs impaled.

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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: Arms of Dutch Basilicas

Postby Michael F. McCartney » 23 Sep 2018, 08:54

Would be interesting to see the actual written blazon, assuming there is one, and then a translation into English or French by a competent bilingual heraldic artist or scholar.

FWIW it looks to me like per fess and in base per pale... not the most attractive arrangement but not unique. The spacing is essentially the same as the 3rd and 4th quarters of a quartered shield; but the undivided upper half is to me visually much heavier (what's a better term?) than if the shield was actually quartered, with two separate fields in chief.
Michael F. McCartney
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JMcMillan
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Re: Arms of Dutch Basilicas

Postby JMcMillan » 26 Sep 2018, 22:40

I agree about the unpleasant artistic effect of a per fess partition rather than an actual chief. Beyond that, I would suggest that the principle by which these are composed is not good heraldry. The ombrellino and tintinnabulum would work better as external additaments--in fact, at least in the United States, what distinguishes the arms of a basilica is the ombrellino placed palewise behind the shield. And using the symbol of the patron saint impaling the arms of the municipality where the church is located feels like a misappropriation of the civic arms. It would be better to compound the charges from the saintly and civic arms in some fashion to make a single unified coat.
Joseph McMillan
Alexandra, Virginia, USA

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JMcMillan
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Re: Arms of Dutch Basilicas

Postby JMcMillan » 26 Sep 2018, 22:50

As an illustration of the use of the ombrellino as an additament, here are the arms of the Cathedral-Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in Mobile, Alabama, USA.

ImmacConcMobile.jpg
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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Arms of Dutch Basilicas

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 18 Oct 2018, 08:38

JMcMillan wrote:I agree about the unpleasant artistic effect of a per fess partition rather than an actual chief. Beyond that, I would suggest that the principle by which these are composed is not good heraldry. The ombrellino and tintinnabulum would work better as external additaments--in fact, at least in the United States, what distinguishes the arms of a basilica is the ombrellino placed palewise behind the shield. And using the symbol of the patron saint impaling the arms of the municipality where the church is located feels like a misappropriation of the civic arms. It would be better to compound the charges from the saintly and civic arms in some fashion to make a single unified coat.


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