Archbishop Fisher of Sydney

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GSelvester
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Archbishop Fisher of Sydney

Postby GSelvester » 21 Oct 2014, 16:52

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These arms, designed and executed by a personal friend of his, show his personal arms (impaling the arms of the Order of Preachers of which he is a member with arms derived from those of St. John Fisher) with the arms of the See of Sydney on an inescutcheon in chief.

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Chas Charles-Dunne
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Re: Archbishop Fisher of Sydney

Postby Chas Charles-Dunne » 22 Oct 2014, 13:01

GSelvester wrote:Image

These arms, designed and executed by a personal friend of his, show his personal arms (impaling the arms of the Order of Preachers of which he is a member with arms derived from those of St. John Fisher) with the arms of the See of Sydney on an inescutcheon in chief.


Aren't these arms a bit non-standard in regard to their marshaling?

Surely, the arms of the Order, should be be either quartered with his own or as a chief. Isn't the Grand Master the only one who is allowed to impale his arms with those of the Order? Then the quartered or augmented arms, should be impaled with those of the See.

Or am I missing something here?
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Arthur Radburn
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Re: Archbishop Fisher of Sydney

Postby Arthur Radburn » 22 Oct 2014, 13:06

It's certainly an unusual marshalling. The arms of the Dominican Order dimidiated, his personal arms impaled, the diocesan arms on an inescutcheon hanging from the top of the shield. Is this usual Australian practice, or an innovation?
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Chris Green
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Re: Archbishop Fisher of Sydney

Postby Chris Green » 22 Oct 2014, 13:15

Perhaps Geoff Kingman-Sugars can enlighten us.
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Chas Charles-Dunne
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Re: Archbishop Fisher of Sydney

Postby Chas Charles-Dunne » 22 Oct 2014, 13:24

Arthur Radburn wrote:It's certainly an unusual marshalling. The arms of the Dominican Order dimidiated, his personal arms impaled, the diocesan arms on an inescutcheon hanging from the top of the shield. Is this usual Australian practice, or an innovation?


Good catch, Arthur - I missed that bit!
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Leonardo Almeida
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Re: Archbishop Fisher of Sydney

Postby Leonardo Almeida » 23 Oct 2014, 19:38

A common practice for Dominican clergy is addopting a chief inspired by the ancient arms of the Order.

Paul Cremona, Catholic archbishop of Malta:
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Monsignor Legrez, Catholic archbishop of Albi:
Image

I'm almost sure Cardinal Lanza de Montezemolo cites this practice in his recent book. Returning home, I check it.

Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Archbishop Fisher of Sydney

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 03 Nov 2014, 16:08

Chas Charles-Dunne wrote:
Aren't these arms a bit non-standard in regard to their marshaling?

Surely, the arms of the Order, should be be either quartered with his own or as a chief. Isn't the Grand Master the only one who is allowed to impale his arms with those of the Order? Then the quartered or augmented arms, should be impaled with those of the See.

Or am I missing something here?


Most religious orders seem to allow quartering. Usually, the Grandmaster has some specific way of showing he is Grand Master. In the case of the Dominicans, it seems to be to use a version of the chief charged with some symbols of St. Dominic. That is: Argent, a chape ployé Sable, in chief a mullet of six points Or, in base a dog holding a firebrand in its mouth and an orb in its paws lying on a book Proper, a palm branch Vert in saltire with a Lily Argent slipped Vert encircled with a cornet Or.

I am not 100% sure about the blazon, and just inferred the special chief for the grand master, from portraits on wikipedia. Here are some pictures:
Image
Image

As far as dimidiation, the bordure of his personal arms are missing on the shared side, doesn't that make it dimidiated?

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Re: Archbishop Fisher of Sydney

Postby Marcus Karlsson » 26 Jan 2015, 18:57

As I understand the quartering is usualy reserved for the Grandmaster/General of the Order. The Dominican Arms with the Dog Palm and Lilly ect. is an older version of the Arms of the Dominican Order and is not exclusivly used by the Master (as the leader of the Dominicans or Order of Preachers is called). These later Arms (and their involvement in the Inquisition) made the Dominicans to be called Domini Canes (Our Lord's Hounds).

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Re: Archbishop Fisher of Sydney

Postby GJKS » 30 May 2016, 09:43

Chris Green wrote:Perhaps Geoff Kingman-Sugars can enlighten us.


Unfortunately the arms depicted in the initial post in this thread are, for some reason, unavailable. However, I do have a copy of his arms in my archives. I don't have a copy of all the RC high-clergy in my archives as the majority have had 'things done to them' that really don't coincide with traditional heraldry. These arms possibly might be a good example of what I mean. Heaven only knows from whence his (archbishop Fisher) heraldic advice is gleaned since there have been some somewhat questionable arms produced for RC clergy in Australia since the passing of the late Michael McCarthy (1938-2005) who was a stickler for correct heraldry. I believe that I remember seeing one blazon that commenced with "Quarterly per Saltire..." that had me scratching my head somewhat.
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GSelvester
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Re: Archbishop Fisher of Sydney

Postby GSelvester » 07 Jun 2016, 17:27

Chas Charles-Dunne wrote:Aren't these arms a bit non-standard in regard to their marshaling?

Surely, the arms of the Order, should be be either quartered with his own or as a chief. Isn't the Grand Master the only one who is allowed to impale his arms with those of the Order?


The Superior of the Order of Preachers is called the Master of the Order of Preachers, not a Grand Master. It is a Religious Order, not an order of chivalry.


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