Payette arms (new governor-general)

Heraldry in Canada.
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Arthur Radburn
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Payette arms (new governor-general)

Postby Arthur Radburn » 13 Oct 2017, 18:51

The arms of Canada's new governor-general, Mme Julie Payette :

Image

Arms : Per pale Azure and Sable, a wing and in the canton the Royal Crown Argent.
Crest : A musical stave bearing the first notes of the second movement of Alessandro Marcello's Oboe Concerto in D Minor Sable.
Supporters : Two lynx Sable embellished Argent each wearing a collar set with laurel leaves Or and mullets Argent and standing on the planet Earth Azure its atmosphere Argent charged with the Greek letter Sigma Argent.

The symbolism is explained in full on this page. In brief :

~ the shield represents "exploration and liberty" (Mme Payette was an astronaut)
~ the astronaut's helmet represents "the never-ending quest for knowledge" beyond 'the frontiers of the known world"
~ the musical crest symbolises "the creativity, sensitivity and remarkable virtuousity of human beings"
~ the supporters represent the people of Canada
~ the compartment depicts earth as seen from space.
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Arthur Radburn
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Iain Boyd
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Re: Payette arms (new governor-general)

Postby Iain Boyd » 14 Oct 2017, 03:09

Very interesting, although, I am not enamored with the musical stave in the crest. Too reminiscent of the 'paper heraldry' of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

I prefer crests that could have been worn in a medieval tournament.

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Iain Boyd

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Chris Green
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Re: Payette arms (new governor-general)

Postby Chris Green » 14 Oct 2017, 06:17

I prefer crests that could have been worn in a medieval tournament.


Hear hear!
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Martin Goldstraw
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Re: Payette arms (new governor-general)

Postby Martin Goldstraw » 15 Oct 2017, 10:16

I'm not a fan of the astronaut's helm, simply because astronaut's never had mantling and torse whereas Knights helms did. It jars like looking at a Knight in armour replacing his below the waist armour with jeans and chaps. Knights used mantling, wreath and crests, astronaut's don't.
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Chris Green
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Re: Payette arms (new governor-general)

Postby Chris Green » 15 Oct 2017, 12:04

I think this is the first astronaut's helmet, but I recall seeing a fighter pilot's helmet once.
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Arthur Radburn
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Re: Payette arms (new governor-general)

Postby Arthur Radburn » 15 Oct 2017, 14:20

Martin Goldstraw wrote:I'm not a fan of the astronaut's helm, simply because astronaut's never had mantling and torse whereas Knights helms did. It jars like looking at a Knight in armour replacing his below the waist armour with jeans and chaps. Knights used mantling, wreath and crests, astronaut's don't.

My thoughts too. One also sees ancient Grecian and Israelite helmets, and 16th-century Spanish morions, bedecked with mantling, torse and crest. My feeling is that if non-traditional helmets are used, they should be depicted as they would have been worn, with the crest depicted separately. This is the way that bishops' arms are often depicted in patents : the arms ensigned of a mitre, with the crest as a separate drawing.
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Martin Goldstraw
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Re: Payette arms (new governor-general)

Postby Martin Goldstraw » 16 Oct 2017, 14:30

Arthur Radburn wrote:My thoughts too. One also sees ancient Grecian and Israelite helmets, and 16th-century Spanish morions, bedecked with mantling, torse and crest. My feeling is that if non-traditional helmets are used, they should be depicted as they would have been worn, with the crest depicted separately. This is the way that bishops' arms are often depicted in patents : the arms ensigned of a mitre, with the crest as a separate drawing.


We are entirely in agreement.
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Cheshire Heraldry
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Bruce E Weller
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Re: Payette arms (new governor-general)

Postby Bruce E Weller » 17 Oct 2017, 10:29

Could one pass on the helm entirely?
I cannot dispute the subject's entitlement to helm selected, she is, after all, a former astronaut, but I am troubled by the thoughts of motorcycle-, gridiron-, diver's-helmets, however justified by career or avocation, with or without mantling.
Or am I fighting a losing battle for tradition? I shall review Boutell and see if that is of any assistance.

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Re: Payette arms (new governor-general)

Postby Martin Goldstraw » 17 Oct 2017, 15:55

Some have argued that the armiger is "entitled" to an astronaut's helm because she is/was an astronaut but that is a silly argument. Of course the armiger is entitled to wear an astronaut's helm when in space or when dressed as an astronaut but using an astronaut's helmet on an heraldic achievement is no more acceptable than using a policeman's helmet (even if the armiger is a policemen) as policemen never wore wreaths, mantling and crest as a part of their uniform.

silly-helm.jpg
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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: Payette arms (new governor-general)

Postby Michael F. McCartney » 18 Oct 2017, 08:19

Reasonable points; however, much the same could be said re: some of the historical helmets frequently used in heraldry, with torse, crest, and mantling, but which were never actually worn that way. Of course those anachronisms have long become accepted usage; but in every case they began the first time an artist cobbled them together.
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