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Re: Center for Church Heraldry in the Netherlands

Posted: 27 Jul 2017, 07:30
by Michael F. McCartney
A major, and among the most valuable, function of heralds, is to give advice and guidance on the design, display, and other uses of arms; to record then; and to perform related research. That is true even of most official heralds, below the rank of Chief Herald or King of Arms, since even the royal Heralds and Pursuivants cannot independently grant or confirm arms.

Re: Center for Church Heraldry in the Netherlands

Posted: 27 Jul 2017, 15:55
by JMcMillan
Michael F. McCartney wrote:A major, and among the most valuable, function of heralds, is to give advice and guidance on the design, display, and other uses of arms; to record then; and to perform related research. That is true even of most official heralds, below the rank of Chief Herald or King of Arms, since even the royal Heralds and Pursuivants cannot independently grant or confirm arms.


Hence the name of the very organization on whose forum we are having this discussion.

Re: Center for Church Heraldry in the Netherlands

Posted: 27 Jul 2017, 16:06
by Chris Green
Hence the name of the very organization on whose forum we are having this discussion.


But we do not arrogate to ourselves batons.

Re: Center for Church Heraldry in the Netherlands

Posted: 27 Jul 2017, 19:31
by Arthur Radburn
Google reveals that the Centre was founded, and is run, by a gentleman named Anders Daae. It offers advice on arms, flags and vestments, provides emblazonments, and maintains a private registry of ecclesiastical arms. The Hoge Raad van Adel stopped registering ecclesiastical arms in 2014.

This is an example of the Centre's registration document :

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Re: Center for Church Heraldry in the Netherlands

Posted: 27 Jul 2017, 20:39
by Chris Green
Arthur: Thank you for your research. We should be grateful that there are a few people in the Roman Catholic Church trying to maintain some discipline in its heraldry, even if they do perhaps take liberties with their batons! Fr Guy Selvester fights the good fight in the US, but the situation in some parts of the world is dire to say the least.

Re: Center for Church Heraldry in the Netherlands

Posted: 11 Jan 2018, 19:33
by Ryan Shuflin
Chris Green wrote:
Hence the name of the very organization on whose forum we are having this discussion.


But we do not arrogate to ourselves batons.


I am curious what, in your opinion qualifies a herald or heraldic organization for batons?

Re: Center for Church Heraldry in the Netherlands

Posted: 12 Jan 2018, 09:01
by Michael F. McCartney
"We don't" is not the same as "we couldn't" - at best, "we don't" may reflect a view that "we really shouldn't..."

I'm not arguing that we "should" - merely that as the "International..." whatever we are, the practices of other countries, with or without government regulation, are equally valid.

(I'm referring to the Society's arms, not our individual arms)

Re: Center for Church Heraldry in the Netherlands

Posted: 12 Jan 2018, 15:23
by Chris Green
I am curious what, in your opinion qualifies a herald or heraldic organization for batons?


Not the College of Arms for one. In England only the Earl Marshal has the crossed batons.

Re: Center for Church Heraldry in the Netherlands

Posted: 12 Jan 2018, 16:13
by JMcMillan
Chris Green wrote:
I am curious what, in your opinion qualifies a herald or heraldic organization for batons?


Not the College of Arms for one. In England only the Earl Marshal has the crossed batons.


But in Scotland, all the heralds do.

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Re: Center for Church Heraldry in the Netherlands

Posted: 12 Jan 2018, 16:25
by JMcMillan
JMcMillan wrote:But in Scotland, all the heralds do.


And apparently in Ireland as well.

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