Heraldry in the Rijksmuesum

The Heraldry of Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg
Ryan Shuflin
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Heraldry in the Rijksmuesum

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 28 May 2013, 17:14

Last edited by Ryan Shuflin on 29 May 2013, 14:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Chris Green
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Re: Heraldry in the Rijksmuesum

Postby Chris Green » 29 May 2013, 07:47

Ryan: Could you re-do the URL please. Something went wrong.
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Torsten Laneryd
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Re: Heraldry in the Rijksmuesum

Postby Torsten Laneryd » 29 May 2013, 11:16


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Chris Green
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Re: Heraldry in the Rijksmuesum

Postby Chris Green » 29 May 2013, 12:00

An interesting collection. The first two pavises at the top are noteworthy in that they bear the arms of the owners, though they would never have been used by them, being part of the kit of a crossbow team. Perhaps the arms are of a city.

All three pavises are unusual in that they have pointed bases, which would have made them hard to set firmly on the ground, unless it was muddy. The second one has had its point renewed at some stage and the third seems to have had some strengthening sheath over the point (two screw-holes). Perhaps they were supported by two legs at the back making a tripod. They were not meant to be carried in close combat.

Further down on the left we find "onbekend wapenschild" (unknown CoA). Very strange device - everything is facing sinister - bird, helm and crest. But the picture hasn't been published backwards by mistake since the "Blon fecit" (Blon did this) inscription underneath is the right way round. Did Mr Blon copy the achievement from a mirror-image signet-ring perhaps? Or is it a sketch for such a ring or a seal?
Then further on we encounter "wapenschild med haan" (CoA with cockerel) by Albrecht Durer, also everything sinister except Durer's initials. Yet further and we see "wapenschild met oude garenspinnende vrouw" (CoA with old woman spinning yarn) - surely one of the strangest heraldic charges - again with charge and crest sinister.

Strangest of all is the depiction of the English King Edward IV's achievement as a Knight of the Golden Fleece. The shield is the correct way round as is the writing, but the crest and helm are sinister as is the fleece. I imagine that the azure at Q1 and Q4 has faded to whitish.
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Torsten Laneryd
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Re: Heraldry in the Rijksmuesum

Postby Torsten Laneryd » 29 May 2013, 15:26

Chris Green wrote: Perhaps the arms are of a city.

The arms with tree golden crowns on a red chief are from the German city of Cologne (Köln)

Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Heraldry in the Rijksmuesum

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 29 May 2013, 15:55

As far as the crests facing the sinister, it is possible they are meant to be respecting something or some one, possibly on another page, however, this doesn't hold up as well in cases where the charge on the field faces the dexter. Although the artist may have felt only the crest and collar needed to pay respect and not the charges.

For me the farmer standing on his head make the woman spinning yarn look quite normal. Anyone care to blazon the crest or explain it?
https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/collectie/RP-P-OB-947

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Arthur Radburn
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Re: Heraldry in the Rijksmuesum

Postby Arthur Radburn » 29 May 2013, 16:46

Chris Green wrote:Strangest of all is the depiction of the English King Edward IV's achievement as a Knight of the Golden Fleece. The shield is the correct way round as is the writing, but the crest and helm are sinister as is the fleece. I imagine that the azure at Q1 and Q4 has faded to whitish.

Perhaps this is a stall plate that was mounted in a chapel, and the helmet was oriented to face the altar, as is or was done with Order of the Garter stall plates in St George's Chapel in Windsor Castle.
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Ton de Witte
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Re: Heraldry in the Rijksmuesum

Postby Ton de Witte » 30 May 2013, 09:08

No it is ok because when the order of the golden fleece had a meeting (a church was usual) then the shields (stallplates) of the knights were hung on the two sides of the building. At the end of the building the arms of the grandmaster i.e. the duke of Burgundy were hung and all crests of the knights were placed to face the arms of the grandmaster. What you got are a number of arms on which the crest is facing the right way and the others facing the wrong way, it all depended on which side of the building the arms of the knight were hung.
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Re: Heraldry in the Rijksmuesum

Postby Chris Green » 30 May 2013, 10:38

The same presumably applying to the dead sheep.
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