Shields vs. Badges to mark property in Germanic nations?

Heraldry of the German speaking countries
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MenkAndemicael
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Shields vs. Badges to mark property in Germanic nations?

Postby MenkAndemicael » 04 Jul 2016, 02:48

How did people in Germanic nations mark property? With badges, crests, full achievements, or shields?
As I understand it, due to the requirement for arms to be granted, increasing complexity of marshaled arms, and periods of political turmoil requiring symbols of allegiance, badges came into vogue in England in a way they didn't in other heraldic traditions, including Germany.

Having visited family from the region (Southern Austria), I feel like I've never seen crests appearing on their own, haven't really noticed badges, but have seen shields on antiques. Does this seem accurate?

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JMcMillan
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Re: Shields vs. Badges to mark property in Germanic nations?

Postby JMcMillan » 04 Jul 2016, 19:03

MenkAndemicael wrote:As I understand it, due to the requirement for arms to be granted, increasing complexity of marshaled arms, and periods of political turmoil requiring symbols of allegiance, badges came into vogue in England


I don't know the answer to the basic question about Germany, but this explanation for the wide use of badges in England seems incorrect (other than the part about political turmoil, possibly). Badges were in widespread use among the great baronial families long before there was any requirement that arms be granted, and well before the peak period of complex marshaling. Many of the best-known historical episodes involving badges come from the Wars of the Roses, but they were clearly around well before that.

Badges were also used in Spain (the ox-yoke and arrows of Ferdinand and Isabel) and France (the porcupine of Louis XII, the salamander of Francis I, the sun of Louis XIV, the interlaced crescents of Diane de Poitiers), at least by royalty and other powerful people.
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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Shields vs. Badges to mark property in Germanic nations?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 05 Jul 2016, 15:21

Badges as worn by retainers are associated in England with Baronial power/ Feudalism. That is, at a time in England, badges and livery colours functioned a bit like gang colours. Occasionally this could lead to violence, and there were efforts to ban the wearing of badges by retainers. With the ascension of the House of Tudor, made only possible by the death of all the rival houses, as well as the weakening of the nobility. Badges however were used by the monarchy to communicate continuity as well as to mark property.

Considering this, one would expect Germany in the form of the Holy Roman Empire to have a lot of badges. However, it doesn't appear so. The Electors have seemed to use the symbols of their office as a badge. Meissen Porcelain still uses the crossed swords of the Arch Marshal as their logo. Monograms seem to have been popular it the later periods, the same as in Britain. Here in Saxony, Augustus the strong wrote AR (for Augustus Rex) every where he could. He paid a lot to be the King of Poland, and pretty much that was all the use he got out of it.

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MenkAndemicael
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Re: Shields vs. Badges to mark property in Germanic nations?

Postby MenkAndemicael » 06 Jul 2016, 06:45

I was trying to remember where I had read the stuff about them being uniquely popular in England due to excess marshaling on one hand and lack of regulation on the other. This may have been the source, no footnotes:
https://threegoldbees.com/collegia-note ... ic-badges/

As for my Germany question, I may have answered it by sniffing around the German eBay site for heraldic antiques:
http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40 ... _sacat=353
Pretty sure most of the disembodied shields I remembered seeing were probably civic arms.

Also, a couple of the articles in the member's area by Michael Waas mention a German aversion to displaying different parts of the arms separately, which explains the lack of Scottish and English style crests: you'd never see them separate from the full achievement.

I am still curious about the lack of badges. With the tendency to repeat charges on crests, badges would seem to be a no-brainer.

Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Shields vs. Badges to mark property in Germanic nations?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 06 Jul 2016, 15:01

It is something that needs more research. I am not sure the idea of a heraldic badge exists in German. In the German wikipedia article on the Tudor rose for example it is described as a Symbol, which has a broad meaning in German as in English. The Luther rose, is perhaps the most well known German badge was used by Luther on letters, but I am not sure if he used it to mark property. It was basically his seal.

I am having trouble finding a German translation for badge that carries the same meaning, which perhaps explains why they didn't use them.

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Re: Shields vs. Badges to mark property in Germanic nations?

Postby Bruce E Weller » 07 Jul 2016, 05:58

I wonder whether there is a reason buried in the quasi military role played by (some) retainers or clan members?


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