Holy Roman Empire

Heraldry of the German speaking countries
Ryan Shuflin
Posts: 507
Joined: 26 Jul 2012, 13:00
Location: Germany

Re: Holy Roman Empire

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 08 Dec 2012, 15:28

GJKS wrote:
Edward Hillenbrand wrote: She was a "bit" peeved when I pointed out that he was against married priests and as a celibate former monk he had no kids. o.O


That's interesting as many popes were married and did have children, both within the marriage and outside as well.
Just how does one confirm / deny such skeletons in the family closet when it involves the catholic clergy?
When did popes actually become celibate by papal 'law' and how effective is/was that 'law'?


There is an interesting article on it in wikipedia, and it appears that most Popes were celibate, of course the most famous ones are those that weren't.

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Edward Hillenbrand
Posts: 200
Joined: 10 Sep 2012, 01:42
Location: Catskill Mountains, New York, United States

Re: Holy Roman Empire

Postby Edward Hillenbrand » 09 Dec 2012, 14:24

Interesting that you bring the "how do you prove it" question up. On another sight (health themed) they have been discussing DNA test for genetic illnesses and such. A man has a genetic marker that will identify some illness (they mentioned it but I forgot what it was) and his five children were tested. None of the kids A) had the marker and B) were his. :o So we can determine with much greater accuracy than those musty old family trees who we are related to. The question is: does history want us to?
Ed Hillenbrand

"Memento te esse Mortalum"

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Mike_Oettle
Posts: 129
Joined: 11 Feb 2015, 17:03
Location: Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape, South Africa

Re: Holy Roman Empire

Postby Mike_Oettle » 05 Mar 2015, 21:09

For what it’s worth, my friend Godfrey Sponneck (who also at times styles himself Reichsgraf Gottfried von Sponeck), who has in the past belonged to IAAH, is descended from a family of three brothers and a sister who were simultaneously ennobled by the Holy Roman Emperor (I have his book at home, and am at work, so I cannot give the date).
They were originally untitled nobility from Silesia surnamed Von Hedwiger.
The sister mentioned was the morganatic wife of a duke of Württemberg, who also was duke of Montbeliard (known in German as Mömpelgard) in France. The Burg Sponeck on the Rhine (then an enclave in the Margravate of Baden, and later part of Baden) was held by the House of Württemberg as a crossing point between the two realms.
As I mentioned they were ennobled and styled Reichsgraf (in the case of the sister, Reichsgräfin) von Sponeck.
In this family, as in many others of similar nobility, the title descends to all male descendants, as well as to daughters who cannot pass it on to their descendants. Godfrey has two daughters, whom he refers to as Reichsgräfinnen, but whose descendants cannot use the title.
An ancestor of Godfrey’s took service with the King of Denmark (as an army general) and was additionally given the Danish title Rigsgreve af Sponneck by the Danish Crown.
The South African branch of the family originated in Denmark.
The Von Sponeck coat of arms is an interesting historical gloss, as its first and fourth quarters show the ancient Von Hedwiger arms, gules a lion rampant or.
The second and third quarters are an augmentation of honour by the Holy Roman Emperor that recalls a deed of bravery by an ancestor during the Siege of Vienna. He apparently swam the Danube and returned with a Turk’s head.
There are also separate crests, one representing the house of Von Hedwiger and the other reflecting the augmentation.
When I have a chance I will ask Godfrey to post an image of these arms on IAAH.
Regards,
Mike
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life.
[Proverbs 14:27]

Kurt Alex
Posts: 20
Joined: 22 Mar 2017, 11:23

Re: Holy Roman Empire

Postby Kurt Alex » 27 May 2017, 19:29

Hello Ed,
Hoping that you still check in occasionally. Here is a link to item 187.13 http://archivportal.at/detail.aspx?id=2379535 in the Reichsadelsakete (Imperial Enoblements) of the Austrian State Archives documenting the ennoblement of David, Johann Balthasar and Johann, brothers, bankers in Ausgsburg, and granting the right to use 'von' and also the 'privilegium denominandi' which allows them also to designate a location in conjunction with 'von', as well as the 'Lehensberechtigung', the right to hold property in fief. The site also has an image of the COA. Enjoy.

Regards from South Carolina

Kurt Alex

Kurt Alex
Posts: 20
Joined: 22 Mar 2017, 11:23

Re: Holy Roman Empire

Postby Kurt Alex » 27 May 2017, 22:56

Here is the image. Hope this works.

COAHillenbrand.jpg

Regards,
Kurt

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Edward Hillenbrand
Posts: 200
Joined: 10 Sep 2012, 01:42
Location: Catskill Mountains, New York, United States

Re: Holy Roman Empire

Postby Edward Hillenbrand » 09 Jul 2017, 18:44

Hi Alex, yes I dist!o occasionally drop in to visit!
Ed Hillenbrand

"Memento te esse Mortalum"

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