Seefeldt Coat of Arms

Heraldry of the German speaking countries
Ryan Shuflin
Posts: 527
Joined: 26 Jul 2012, 13:00
Location: Germany

Re: Seefeldt Coat of Arms

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 14 Jan 2013, 17:49

Chris Green wrote:
And the only translation in English I have seen is “hearts”:
“Or, three lions passant in pale Azure crowned and armed Or langued Gules accompanied by nine hearts Gules.”


That's the problem with people from other countries attempting blazons without access to/comprehension of the original blazon in the original language.

I have to say in defence of the non-Danes that I have seen similar confusion over the Danish royal arms among Scandinavian heraldists.


Even the Danish Royal website calls them hearts. I was thinking more how they were blazoned in general, not just in the Danish arms. I think nenuphar is the prefered term and is used on heraldica and a couple of books. There doesn't appear to be any hint in the blazon on whether they are indented or not.

User avatar
Torsten Laneryd
Posts: 102
Joined: 12 Sep 2012, 22:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Seefeldt Coat of Arms

Postby Torsten Laneryd » 15 Jan 2013, 08:25

From A Complete Guide to Heraldry by Fox-Davies :
“A curious leaf—usually called the "sea-leaf," which is properly the "nenuphar-leaf," is often met with in German heraldry, as are Linden leaves.”

User avatar
Ton de Witte
Posts: 1268
Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 21:23
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Seefeldt Coat of Arms

Postby Ton de Witte » 15 Jan 2013, 08:42

Ryan Shuflin wrote:The Frisian flag also contains sea-leaves that are commonly called hearts, and I have read that the Danish hearts started out as sea-leaves. Of course there is also the more bizarre sea leaves such as those of Brehna. Image Although I have seen these attributed to Angria (Engern in German), The website of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha gives Angria; Gules, 3 hearts Or. Image


The "hearts" in the Frisian flag are called: "pompe bledden" in the local language so they are not hearts but leaves, in fact it was explicitly stated when the flag was adopted that they were not hearts.
Ton de Witte
IAAH secretary

Ryan Shuflin
Posts: 527
Joined: 26 Jul 2012, 13:00
Location: Germany

Re: Seefeldt Coat of Arms

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 15 Jan 2013, 15:33

Ton de Witte wrote:
Ryan Shuflin wrote:The Frisian flag also contains sea-leaves that are commonly called hearts, and I have read that the Danish hearts started out as sea-leaves. Of course there is also the more bizarre sea leaves such as those of Brehna. Image Although I have seen these attributed to Angria (Engern in German), The website of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha gives Angria; Gules, 3 hearts Or. Image


The "hearts" in the Frisian flag are called: "pompe bledden" in the local language so they are not hearts but leaves, in fact it was explicitly stated when the flag was adopted that they were not hearts.


Most people I have met call them hearts (but then again, some only new the flag as one "with the hearts", but right they are leaves.

User avatar
Elaine Seefeldt
Posts: 6
Joined: 30 Dec 2012, 14:58

Re: Seefeldt Coat of Arms

Postby Elaine Seefeldt » 07 Apr 2013, 16:36

Thanks for all your replies. Really interesting to read about all the parts of the Coat of Arms and their meanings. There is only one British arm of our "Seefeldt" family left and thats my son who proudly has the coat of arms on his wall and will be passed down to his children. The only other male Seefeldt of our family left since my Inkel Werner recently died, is in Chicago,my son's cousin.

User avatar
GJKS
Posts: 189
Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 00:49
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Contact:

Re: Seefeldt Coat of Arms

Postby GJKS » 08 Apr 2013, 02:35

Elaine Seefeldt wrote: I just wonder if any were my ancestors.

and...
There is only one British arm of our "Seefeldt" family left and thats my son who proudly has the coat of arms on his wall and will be passed down to his children


I would suggest that you make it clear to your son that those arms don't necessarily belong to your branch of the family. Only that fact can be determined by professional genealogical investigation carried out by someone who is familiar with Germanic genealogical research. If your son just accepts it as being valid, he is only perpetuating the fraud that is conducted daily by 'bucket shops' purporting to sell you 'your family arms and history'.

I know my Oma and Opa moved to southern Germany but I presume they had sisters and brothers and I havent a clue where they landed up.

Whilst it is nice to have a Coat of Arms on view, one should always be careful in asserting that they are 'my family arms' without the necessary documentary proof to back up such a statement. There are always many urban myths that are associated with family history and they mean nothing at all other than what has been dreamt up over time - only proper genealogical research can prove such assertions, and when that happens, they are no longer urban myths, but established documentary facts.

When you mention "... I havent a clue where they landed up..." this doesn't really matter when genealogy of armigerous inheritance is concerned. What has to occur is that the paternal pedigree has to be back-tracked from you and your established details of existence. Only by doing this will you be able to correctly establish any link with the original armiger. Good luck with that as I know just how frustrating that research can be even with just one piece of the jigsaw being missing.

I had that problem with tracing back my paternal pedigree. To date I have managed to trace back by documentary evidence to the early 1490s, except for one marriage in the 1840s in England. Only last year I managed to ascertain that this marriage was solomnised in a Baptist Church in Bedfordshire, which is one of the non-conformist religions in the United Kingdom for whom details of births, marriages and deaths are not kept with the normal Church of England record repositries.
Regards,
Geoff

Jonathan Webster
Posts: 304
Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 21:47
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Seefeldt Coat of Arms

Postby Jonathan Webster » 08 Apr 2013, 10:06

More to the point: if you are a Seefeldt, and regardless of whether your son is a Seefeldt, (unless of course his father is a Seefeldt descended from the original bearer of these arms) you wouldn't pass the arms down to him: arms in most heraldic jurisdictions/countries (apart from in Canada and in some circumstances in Portugal) are passed down from father to son, and not through women. (who do however bear the arms of their fathers, but do not pass their arms on unless its under special circumstances-usually if the woman is a heradic heiress.) Arms don't 'belong' to surnames; although they are certainly connected, but they are connected to a patriline, that is, father to son (and that includes daughters but does not pass through them, in a similar way to the way surnames are traditionally passed down.)

As you speak of your 'father's family' ; if you are descended from the armigerous Seefeldts living in Germany, then your father and yourself and any siblings you may have would be legitimate representatives and members of that family, but your son and his children would not be because they (presumably) do not have the same patriline as yourself. As Seefeldt is a german surname, it must also be borne in mind that german noble families and houses are very conscious of the agnatic descent of their families, and would not consider someone descended in the female line from the family to be members of the house or family. (which, note; does not mean women members of such families are not included in membership of the family, just their children.)

Furthermore, as Geoff said; you need to ascertain father to son descent in the direct male line from the original person who bore those arms in order to bear them (unless there has been a name-and-arms clause somewhere along the line, which usually only happens in the England, Scotland and France anyway)

Having said all that, as you are citizens (presumably) of the United States; which does not regulate the heraldry of individuals, then you are free to do as you please as regards what arms you bear.

User avatar
JMcMillan
Posts: 612
Joined: 13 Jul 2012, 22:33
Location: United States

Re: Seefeldt Coat of Arms

Postby JMcMillan » 08 Apr 2013, 12:54

Jonathan Webster wrote:Having said all that, as you are citizens (presumably) of the United States; which does not regulate the heraldry of individuals, then you are free to do as you please as regards what arms you bear.


With respect, the idea that citizens of unregulated heraldic jurisdictions are free to bear whatever arms they please is a pernicious one. Certainly this has never been the view of the best American heraldic theorists. As the Committee on Heraldry of the New England Historic Genealogical Society put it in the early 20th century, we are not free to bear arms that tell genealogical lies. The fact that no one can put you in jail for doing so doesn't make it all right.

What we are free to do is to devise and assume original arms that do not tell such lies.
Joseph McMillan
Alexandra, Virginia, USA

User avatar
Peter Harling
Posts: 61
Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 18:17
Location: Near Clitheroe, Lancs. UK
Contact:

Re: Seefeldt Coat of Arms

Postby Peter Harling » 08 Apr 2013, 20:06

Sadly Elaine, heraldry is still very much the province of the male! The Canadian authority has taken steps to reverse this situation. The first child born to man and wife, be it male or female will bear the arms of the father and pass the arms to his or her children in the next generation.

But of course as has been pointed out, one must first prove that the arms in question do actually belong to your branch of the family. This is a very long, hard and often costly rout to take! Personally if I were in your shoes, rather than go down that road, I would reconstruct the Seefeldt coat of arms by adding 'differences' (these will be explained to you if you decide on this route), the new coat of arms can reflect the family traditions of Seefeldt connection and your son would be able to pass this new coat down to future generations with pride!

You live in a country (America), where this is heraldically permissible, indeed encouraged. We here at this web site have helped many people in your position to redesign arms and would be happy to extend this free service to you.

Regards ............. Peter
Regards Peter Harling
IAAH Fellow

User avatar
GJKS
Posts: 189
Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 00:49
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia
Contact:

Re: Seefeldt Coat of Arms

Postby GJKS » 09 Apr 2013, 05:28

Peter Harling wrote: The Canadian authority has taken steps to reverse this situation. The first child born to man and wife, be it male or female will bear the arms of the father and pass the arms to his or her children in the next generation.

Unfortunately, this Canadian practice is NOT traditional heraldic practice where the 'arms stay with the name'!
I shudder to think of the Canadian heraldic mish-mash that is now perpetuated by this aberrant policy.
If the arms don't stay with the name, of what possible use are they in attempting to identify someone?
Regards,
Geoff


Return to “German Heraldry”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests