Petting the Palatine Lion?

[Ryan Shuflin]

I wish I knew where this came from.

[Chris Green]

Is that a tiny red inescutcheon I spy? Or is the lion rampant at Q4 playing with a kite?

[Ryan Shuflin]

Is that a tiny red inescutcheon I spy? Or is the lion rampant at Q4 playing with a kite?

I believe it is suppose to be the elector's coat of arms, or it could be those of his heir. I know that the Hanover's used a plain gules inescutcheon for their heir, I don't know if other dynasties did it. Which is part of why I want to know where this is from. Also, it lack wings or horns, in the crest, and I am wondering if that means they were added later, or dropped, or used intermittently.

[Tomasz Steifer]

Is that a tiny red inescutcheon I spy? Or is the lion rampant at Q4 playing with a kite?

I believe it is suppose to be the elector's coat of arms, or it could be those of his heir. I know that the Hanover's used a plain gules inescutcheon for their heir, I don't know if other dynasties did it. Which is part of why I want to know where this is from. Also, it lack wings or horns, in the crest, and I am wondering if that means they were added later, or dropped, or used intermittently.

I think it is known in German as "Regalien Feld." It is not often and not always used, and only in the coats of arm of rulers (Fuersten) who have received from the emperor part of its prerogatives (including the right to inflict the death penalty).

Here's more about it, do not feel up to translate from german, but what good old google translator
http://www.dr-bernhard-peter.de/Heraldik/regalien.htm

[Torsten Laneryd]

I believe that the charge on the red inescutcheon is missing. It should have been a golden orb, because that is what the Bavarian Elector and Duke has on the inescutcheon of his quartered coat from 1624.

[Tomasz Steifer]

Is that a tiny red inescutcheon I spy? Or is the lion rampant at Q4 playing with a kite?

Maybe this is Pointing stick as in a Lenovo ThinkPad?

[Torsten Laneryd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electorate_of_Bavaria

[Ryan Shuflin]

I believe that the charge on the red inescutcheon is missing. It should have been a golden orb, because that is what the Bavarian Elector and Duke has on the inescutcheon of his quartered coat from 1624.

I think the Bavarian Electors quartered Bavaria first, and the Count Palatine's put the Palatinate first. So this is probably the arms of the Elector Palatine, which also used the orb.

[Torsten Laneryd]

I believe that the charge on the red inescutcheon is missing. It should have been a golden orb, because that is what the Bavarian Elector and Duke has on the inescutcheon of his quartered coat from 1624.

I think the Bavarian Electors quartered Bavaria first, and the Count Palatine's put the Palatinate first. So this is probably the arms of the Elector Palatine, which also used the orb.

According to Paul Ernst Rattelmueller, Das Wappen von Bayern, were the electors oft not so hard on the rule of which charge to set first, Bavaria or the Palatinate. But they always kept the orbshield.

[Ryan Shuflin]

Thanks, I find that helpful. Of course all Wittlebachs from 1214 on were both Count Palatine and Duke of Bavaria, but I think following the treaty of Pavia they adopted formally became the Palatine and Bavarian branches, although I am not sure if they are contemporary names, or how much influence they had on heraldry. I am always looking for more information, but there is very little not in German.

As regards to the Regalia field, this seems to be a regional thing, limited to Anhalt, Brandenburg and the Saxon Duchies. Also, I think the orb's importance to the Wittlesbach is evident in the original coat of arms of the kingdom, where they replaced the orb with Royal regalia.