Bavaria: Lozengy or Paly?

Heraldry of the German speaking countries
Ryan Shuflin
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Bavaria: Lozengy or Paly?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 08 Mar 2014, 01:14

I have seen the Bavarian coat of arms blazoned different ways, mostly as Lozengey Bendy, but also as Paly Bendy. Is one preferred over the other, or does it even matter?

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Chris Green
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Re: Bavaria: Lozengy or Paly?

Postby Chris Green » 08 Mar 2014, 06:41

I suppose one should look first to the blazon in German.

While researching that I would merely point to Wiki which blazons the arms as: Fusilly in bend Argent and Azure.
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Chris Green
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Re: Bavaria: Lozengy or Paly?

Postby Chris Green » 08 Mar 2014, 07:10

Bearing in mind that I don't speak German, the German blazon appears to be: Weiß (Silber) und Blau schräg gerautet. Schräg means skewed/slanting/oblique. Eine raute is a lozenge. If fusils were intended the German blazon should, if my understanding is correct, refer to spindeln. However images of the Bavarian CoA invariably show what we would call fusils (elongated lozenges), so fusilly looks to be the best description.
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Edward Hillenbrand
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Re: Bavaria: Lozengy or Paly?

Postby Edward Hillenbrand » 08 Mar 2014, 15:38

Wait a second! The Germans blazon in German, not French? DUH! I should have know that! That brings up some interesting thoughts.
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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Bavaria: Lozengy or Paly?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 09 Mar 2014, 20:47

Edward Hillenbrand wrote:Wait a second! The Germans blazon in German, not French? DUH! I should have know that! That brings up some interesting thoughts.


I think Anglophones are the only ones that blazon in a different language, although I may be wrong.

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Chris Green
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Re: Bavaria: Lozengy or Paly?

Postby Chris Green » 09 Mar 2014, 21:25

The Nordic countries certainly blazon in their own languages.
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Ton de Witte
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Re: Bavaria: Lozengy or Paly?

Postby Ton de Witte » 10 Mar 2014, 09:02

Dutch do that also, with some ancient terms thrown in.

About the Bavarian arms thet are so well known that Bavaria as description could be enough, on the other hand I have seen blazons in which the number of lines was specified (i.e. how many lines went in a direction to form the lozenges) but they were not the arms of Bavaria but of fields in other arms alluding to the Bavarian arms.
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Re: Bavaria: Lozengy or Paly?

Postby baz manning » 11 Mar 2014, 19:26

I always blazoned it, 'Paly bendy azure and argent,' as this most closely relates to what I have seen. I don't specify the number of pallets or bendlets as they vary. Neither lozengy nor fusily quite seem to hit the mark.

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GSelvester
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Re: Bavaria: Lozengy or Paly?

Postby GSelvester » 11 Mar 2014, 20:17

The coat of arms of St. Vincent Archabbey in Pennsylvania, founded from St. Michael's in Metten, Bavaria with funds from the Bavarian Royal Family uses the same background and it was always blazoned fusily in bend. I am of the opinion that when it is accurately depicted they are definitely slender and therefor fusels not lozenges. I am positive it is not play-bendy. The lines running top to bottom do not run pale wise. They are definitely on an angle.

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JMcMillan
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Re: Bavaria: Lozengy or Paly?

Postby JMcMillan » 11 Mar 2014, 21:39

It seems to me that the distinction is one that only a 17th century herald could love. The Bavarian arms are depicted with the lozenges in varying proportions depending on artistic taste and the format of the shield.

This was the official inter-war emblazonment.

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This is the one used today, in full form.

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And the lesser state arms, current version.

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Finally for comparison, that 17th century herald born too late, A. C. Fox-Davies, shows us his idea of what a bend lozengy should look like.

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I don't think any of the Bavarian Rauten look any skinnier than F-D's lozenges. (Or that it would matter to the identity of the arms if they did.)
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