How to check for Uniqueness
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- Posts: 582
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How to check for Uniqueness
What is the best way to check if a new coat of arms is unique?
- Chris Green
- Posts: 3628
- Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 13:06
- Location: Karlstad, Sweden
Re: How to check for Uniqueness
That is the $1,000,000 heraldic question! Sadly there really is no way of testing for uniqueness. There are so many obstacles:
1) The College of Arms doesn't even have a publicly accessible archive of grants, not even for the last few years, let alone going back through the centuries. LL has a limited modern archive and other recently-established authorities have something accessible. BUT
2) Even those few archives that that are accessible don't have a system that allows one to input one's own blazon and see whether it is already "taken". SO
3) One can leaf through a few, but by no means all recent (and zero ancient) grants by official heraldic authorities. BUT
4) There is no readily accessible archive of arms granted in countries that once had, but no longer have, heraldic authorities, e.g. France, Germany and the states that made up Germany (such as Bavaria, Hannover ...). The HRE has such an archive, but it is not user-friendly.
5) There are virtually no reliable archives of recent assumed arms, of which there are many thousands in the US alone. The Nordic countries might claim to be exceptions to this, but, to take one example, the Swedish "Vapenregister" is entirely voluntary. There are voluntary registers, but they don't collect more than a small fraction of recently assumed arms, and those that they do bring together must be checked manually.
6) As to ancient arms, there are of course Rolls of Arms, and Heralds' Visitations, but they present very partial snapshots of the arms of one particular country.
7) Google? If one googles a very, very, simple blazon, quite often something pops up, often in Wiki, but nothing complex.
Strange as it may seem, the best way of checking is probably to have a cheap but accurate emblazonment of the proposed arms done and put it up on the IAAH FB group and as many other heraldic FB groups as you can find, and simply ask the question. This method brings you instantly in direct contact with dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of heraldists of many nations, several of whom will be eager to catch you out.
1) The College of Arms doesn't even have a publicly accessible archive of grants, not even for the last few years, let alone going back through the centuries. LL has a limited modern archive and other recently-established authorities have something accessible. BUT
2) Even those few archives that that are accessible don't have a system that allows one to input one's own blazon and see whether it is already "taken". SO
3) One can leaf through a few, but by no means all recent (and zero ancient) grants by official heraldic authorities. BUT
4) There is no readily accessible archive of arms granted in countries that once had, but no longer have, heraldic authorities, e.g. France, Germany and the states that made up Germany (such as Bavaria, Hannover ...). The HRE has such an archive, but it is not user-friendly.
5) There are virtually no reliable archives of recent assumed arms, of which there are many thousands in the US alone. The Nordic countries might claim to be exceptions to this, but, to take one example, the Swedish "Vapenregister" is entirely voluntary. There are voluntary registers, but they don't collect more than a small fraction of recently assumed arms, and those that they do bring together must be checked manually.
6) As to ancient arms, there are of course Rolls of Arms, and Heralds' Visitations, but they present very partial snapshots of the arms of one particular country.
7) Google? If one googles a very, very, simple blazon, quite often something pops up, often in Wiki, but nothing complex.
Strange as it may seem, the best way of checking is probably to have a cheap but accurate emblazonment of the proposed arms done and put it up on the IAAH FB group and as many other heraldic FB groups as you can find, and simply ask the question. This method brings you instantly in direct contact with dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of heraldists of many nations, several of whom will be eager to catch you out.
Chris Green
IAAH President
Bertilak de Hautdesert
IAAH President
Bertilak de Hautdesert
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- Posts: 167
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- Location: New Zealand
Re: How to check for Uniqueness
There is also the problem that the same arms (particularly 'ancient arms) may be used in England and Scotland by different families as well as in Germany by multiple families (because of the fragmented state of Germany before unification).
The best that can be done is to try and make a coat of arms as unique as possible in one's own country.
This does not mean making a design more complicated but by using a combination of tinctures and charges that appeal and perhaps by including a charge that is as unique as possible to your own country.
Not much assistance, but as Chris noted, there really is no way of testing for uniqueness.
All the best,
Iain Boyd
The best that can be done is to try and make a coat of arms as unique as possible in one's own country.
This does not mean making a design more complicated but by using a combination of tinctures and charges that appeal and perhaps by including a charge that is as unique as possible to your own country.
Not much assistance, but as Chris noted, there really is no way of testing for uniqueness.
All the best,
Iain Boyd
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- Posts: 582
- Joined: 26 Jul 2012, 13:00
- Location: Germany
Re: How to check for Uniqueness
Thanks for the answer. Actually, the idea with the FB group sounds great. I am not on FB, so if someone is willing to ask on my behalf, that would be great. Here are the two that I want to check: https://photos.app.goo.gl/cFoLpqrbyji8AnJe7 https://photos.app.goo.gl/vLp7Z8TXTHufb6pB7
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
- Chris Green
- Posts: 3628
- Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 13:06
- Location: Karlstad, Sweden
Re: How to check for Uniqueness
Come on Ryan. FB isn't so scary.
Chris Green
IAAH President
Bertilak de Hautdesert
IAAH President
Bertilak de Hautdesert
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- Posts: 582
- Joined: 26 Jul 2012, 13:00
- Location: Germany
Re: How to check for Uniqueness
I used to be on FB, and I agree that it isn’t scary. I thought it would be easier for someone with an account there to post, then for me to make an account, just for one thing.
- Jeremy Fox
- Posts: 56
- Joined: 19 Dec 2017, 15:14
- Contact:
Re: How to check for Uniqueness
fb is not scary, just a pain. For a couple of months now, my posts to groups have been declared spam or offensive to community standards. All done automatically, so without any clue given as to what might be offensive in any way. Obviously the content of the posts was not in any way objectional nor inappropriate to the groups in question. I am currently "restricted from engaging in the new public groups experience until ..."
- Ton de Witte
- Posts: 1407
- Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 21:23
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: How to check for Uniqueness
late reply : but if you put in part of the blason between " " and enter it in Google books you might get a result.
Ton de Witte
IAAH secretary
IAAH secretary
- Chris Green
- Posts: 3628
- Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 13:06
- Location: Karlstad, Sweden
Re: How to check for Uniqueness
Try Webaldic: https://www.webaldic.com/
Chris Green
IAAH President
Bertilak de Hautdesert
IAAH President
Bertilak de Hautdesert
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