Heraldic Tinctures: How Do I Know I've Got The Right Shade?

[JMcMillan]

That's what the V&A article says, but it's not what the Hoo arms were. They were (or are) "quarterly Argent and Sable," or, in the differenced version used by a one cadet line, the same with a gold bendlet overall.

I have to believe that the author misunderstood someone's explanatory interpolation of "white" in a description of the Hoo arms--something like "quarterly argent--white--and sable."

[Bruce E Weller]

Persuasive; thank you for your response. Be nice to have some more detail about the location of the white-lead and the silver but I can let this one rest now; again, thanks.

[Jeremy Kudlick]

Persuasive; thank you for your response. Be nice to have some more detail about the location of the white-lead and the silver but I can let this one rest now; again, thanks.

The way the blazon is written tells us without specifically stating which quarters are which tincture. Argent and white are the same tincture, just as Or and yellow are the same tincture (though some authors would argue otherwise). The Hoo arms are Quarterly Argent and Sable, which means the first and fourth quarters are Argent (or white), and the second and third quarters are Sable (or black).

I am a bit puzzled about the use of a bendlet Or as a cadet difference since it would place metal on metal, unless it was a bendlet sinister or fimbriated of a color.

[JMcMillan]

I am a bit puzzled about the use of a bendlet Or as a cadet difference since it would place metal on metal, unless it was a bendlet sinister or fimbriated of a color.

It seems that in this version the black and white quarters were reversed so the bendlet (or baston, I've seen it blazoned both ways) falls on the sable areas.

[Jeremy Kudlick]

OK, then it would be quarterly Sable and Argent... Thanks.

[Bruce E Weller]

Apologies if I seem to be harping on the question of early painting options. It is exercising my mind at the moment as I struggle to come to grips with the science.

As far as I can work out, the technique initially used would have been akin to gouache --- the V&A link says water based pigments--- and my question is whether this technique would have had a wider application than just this one pedigree. (I have rather rejected the possibility of tempera, encaustic and oils for a number of reasons although these seem to be contemporaneous with the time-line cited by Boutell in Chapter 1.)

My study (of the available literature) has so far, has omitted the 'mechanics' of rendering which to my mind rather leaves a blank spot in the overall picture. Has there been anything published on the "who, what and how" of the preparation of a Grant of Arms?

[steven harris]

It would also be beneficial to note that whatever shade of a certain color or metal is used, it must be used consistently throughout the arms. I can recall seeing one set of arms that used a very "yellow" shade of Or on the shield, and a "metallic gold" in the mantling and torse.

[Ryan Shuflin]

It would also be beneficial to note that whatever shade of a certain color or metal is used, it must be used consistently throughout the arms. I can recall seeing one set of arms that used a very "yellow" shade of Or on the shield, and a "metallic gold" in the mantling and torse.

I am inclined to agree with you, but this rule could be broken with a nice effect. Often the shield is drawn more stylistically than the rest of the arms, with the crests, mantling and helm drawn more realistically. I think in this case, it might make sense to have crest coronets and helms look more metallic, but the torse and mantling are cloth and have a different texture. Still, the different shades can clash, and that should be avoided.

[Mike_Oettle]

It is not entirely clear to me what Torsten is saying with regard to CMYK colours. If the basic colours of cyan, magenta, yellow and black are taken as a baseline, two of them would be unquestionably wrong for heraldry.
Cyan is closer to bleu celeste than azure, and magenta lacks the strength of a scarlet or crimson while tending to be somewhat like murrey.
And while black is an absolute(?), the shade of yellow used can vary a little from the CMYK standard.
Regards,
Mike

[Bruce E Weller]

I think we are delving into the mechanics of colour reproduction (rather like the electronic version of my original interest in the actual pigments used).

I found the following http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/114967 expanded on the above comments and gave me some notion of the odd percentages cited.