No, I doubt the brother, Sir Alan, would have used them. As they were Scottish, and Sir Alan was a third son, he wouldn't have had an automatic right to arms and would have had to matriculate, with due and proper differences.Iain Boyd wrote:However, with all the maritime references I doubt that his brother would use these arms.
Arms of High Commissioners for Palestine & Trans-Jordan
- Arthur Radburn
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 09:56
Re: Arms of High Commissioners for Palestine & Trans-Jordan
Regards
Arthur Radburn
Arthur Radburn
- Jeremy Fox
- Posts: 56
- Joined: 19 Dec 2017, 15:14
- Contact:
Re: Arms of High Commissioners for Palestine & Trans-Jordan
One could assume that General Cunningham's arms would have included at least the shakefork, generic to his family, and quite likely the mullet seen in his brother's arms, as that appears to be a difference retained by a cadet branch.
Similarly, given that Battershill's family seem to be from Cornwall or Devon, his arms might well have been a variant of "[Az,] a saltire crossed between 4 owls [arg.]" commonly used by the West Country tribe of Batteshill/Battishill/Batshull/etc.
Of course, it is the exact nature of the differences that provides the interest.
Similarly, given that Battershill's family seem to be from Cornwall or Devon, his arms might well have been a variant of "[Az,] a saltire crossed between 4 owls [arg.]" commonly used by the West Country tribe of Batteshill/Battishill/Batshull/etc.
Of course, it is the exact nature of the differences that provides the interest.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- Chris Green
- Posts: 3626
- Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 13:06
- Location: Karlstad, Sweden
Re: Arms of High Commissioners for Palestine & Trans-Jordan
In the absence of the arms of Sir William Battershill, here is his likeness:
Chris Green
IAAH President
Bertilak de Hautdesert
IAAH President
Bertilak de Hautdesert
- Chris Green
- Posts: 3626
- Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 13:06
- Location: Karlstad, Sweden
Re: Arms of High Commissioners for Palestine & Trans-Jordan
Sir W Battershill had one child, a daughter, Jane Elizabeth, who married Major Michael Charles Norman D'Arcy, whose arms were:
The College of Arms emblazonment was done at some date between 1967 and 1980, during Brooke-Little's tenure as Richmond Herald. As Miss B married Major D'A in 1951, one would have expected the College of Arms emblazonment to include the Battershill arms as an inescutcheon (she being an heiress) if Sir W B was armigerous.
The College of Arms emblazonment was done at some date between 1967 and 1980, during Brooke-Little's tenure as Richmond Herald. As Miss B married Major D'A in 1951, one would have expected the College of Arms emblazonment to include the Battershill arms as an inescutcheon (she being an heiress) if Sir W B was armigerous.
Chris Green
IAAH President
Bertilak de Hautdesert
IAAH President
Bertilak de Hautdesert
- Isaac M Schneider
- Posts: 66
- Joined: 27 May 2015, 23:42
Re: Arms of High Commissioners for Palestine & Trans-Jordan
Iain Boyd wrote:Slightly off topic, but I do like Viscount Cunningham of Hyndhope's arms with all the maritime references - especially the compartment of waves.
Iain Boyd
That is a rather lovely compartment, caught my attention right away!
Isaac M. Schneider, Fellow,
IAAH Vice President Heraldic Education,
Jerusalem
IAAH Vice President Heraldic Education,
Jerusalem
- Isaac M Schneider
- Posts: 66
- Joined: 27 May 2015, 23:42
Re: Arms of High Commissioners for Palestine & Trans-Jordan
Thanks Chris and Arthur for the amazing detective work. So Battershill is looking like a no-show . But Cunningham I am hopeful about. Would his arms not appear in connection with his GCMG? There is a chapel associated with it, surely..
Another uncertainty is the arms of Sir Arthur G. Whuchope.. The one I found was the only one listed in Fox-Davies's armorial families under the surname, but that doesn't ascertain the connection.
Thanks again, one and all, for the input and interest!
Another uncertainty is the arms of Sir Arthur G. Whuchope.. The one I found was the only one listed in Fox-Davies's armorial families under the surname, but that doesn't ascertain the connection.
Isaac M Schneider wrote:
6.) Sir Arthur G. Wauchope (1931-38);
*(only ones listed under Wauchope, but not certain they are his..)*
arms: azure, two mullets in chief and in base a garb or.
crest: a garb or. (F-D, Heraldic families).
Thanks again, one and all, for the input and interest!
Isaac M. Schneider, Fellow,
IAAH Vice President Heraldic Education,
Jerusalem
IAAH Vice President Heraldic Education,
Jerusalem
- Arthur Radburn
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 09:56
Re: Arms of High Commissioners for Palestine & Trans-Jordan
As Sir Arthur Wauchope was Scottish, he wouldn't have had an automatic right to arms. He would have had to apply to matriculate a differenced version of the Wauchope stem arms. If he did so, they ought to be in Reid & Wilson's Ordinary of Arms (Vol 2) which covers grants and matriculations between 1902 and 1973. So, for that matter, might Sir Alan Cunningham's arms, if he had any. Unfortunately, Vol 2 of the Ordinary doesn't seem to be available online.
Incidentally, Sir John Chancellor's arms were a Lyon Office matriculation in 1923. Here is an emblazonment from the Armorial of Zimbabwe and Rhodesia :
Incidentally, Sir John Chancellor's arms were a Lyon Office matriculation in 1923. Here is an emblazonment from the Armorial of Zimbabwe and Rhodesia :
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Regards
Arthur Radburn
Arthur Radburn
- Jeremy Fox
- Posts: 56
- Joined: 19 Dec 2017, 15:14
- Contact:
Re: Arms of High Commissioners for Palestine & Trans-Jordan
Blazoned as "bordure engrailed of the third" but shown as "of the second." Or am I being more than usually obtuse?
- Arthur Radburn
- Posts: 1331
- Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 09:56
Re: Arms of High Commissioners for Palestine & Trans-Jordan
No, you're quite right. The blazon in Fox-Davies' Armorial Families (1929) gives the bordure as "of the second", so this appears to be a typo in the Armorial of Zimbabwe & Rhodesia (or in the source the compiler copied it from).Jeremy Fox wrote:Blazoned as "bordure engrailed of the third" but shown as "of the second." Or am I being more than usually obtuse?
Regards
Arthur Radburn
Arthur Radburn
- Isaac M Schneider
- Posts: 66
- Joined: 27 May 2015, 23:42
Re: Arms of High Commissioners for Palestine & Trans-Jordan
Arthur Radburn wrote:Incidentally, Sir John Chancellor's arms were a Lyon Office matriculation in 1923.
Is the bordure engrailed supposed to be encircling the entirety of the shield? I though it would cut off at the chief. Or is this because of it's standing as a differentiation?
Isaac M. Schneider, Fellow,
IAAH Vice President Heraldic Education,
Jerusalem
IAAH Vice President Heraldic Education,
Jerusalem
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests