Crest for female arms

[Ryan Shuflin]

I've always thought that women's coats of arms do not have a crest, except if they are entitled to supporters. Is that correct?

If how I understand it is correct, women given crests tend to also qualify for supporters, so it is unlikely you will see one without the other. For example Lady Saltoun is both a peeress in her own right and Chief of the name of Fraser. Another female Fraser with a crest is Lady Marion Fraser, who has a crest as Lady of the Thistle. I don't know if she has supporters though. Also, in both cases the women were using the arms in their own right, Lady Saltoun as a heiress and Lady Marion as a grantee.

As far as the College of Arms, it says a women can not use crests, not that they can not own them. It certainly appears there is a long tradition of persons inheriting crests through from their mother.

[Martin Goldstraw]

I've always thought that women's coats of arms do not have a crest, except if they are entitled to supporters. Is that correct?

If how I understand it is correct, women given crests tend to also qualify for supporters, so it is unlikely you will see one without the other. For example Lady Saltoun is both a peeress in her own right and Chief of the name of Fraser. Another female Fraser with a crest is Lady Marion Fraser, who has a crest as Lady of the Thistle. I don't know if she has supporters though. Also, in both cases the women were using the arms in their own right, Lady Saltoun as a heiress and Lady Marion as a grantee.

You have used two Scottish examples, Lady Saltoun & Lady Marion Fraser, to demonstrate an incorrect assuption. In Scotland, women do not need to qualify for supporters to receive a crest. See: http://baronytitles.com/index.php?page=margaret-arms for one example.

As far as the College of Arms, it says a women can not use arms, not that they can not own them.

I don't know where you get this from - perhaps you meant to say that women can not use crests? Many women have received grants of arms in their own right and use them. I Know of many women who have inherited arms from their father and continue to use the crests they have inherited ... with or without the approval of the College.

[JMcMillan]

Everything Martin said, with the addition that on the OCHI website you can see a number of arms with crests granted or confirmed to women, without supporters, back into the late 1930s-early 1940s, long before modern ideas of gender equality would have affected things. This suggests that Irish practice on this point was more or less the same as Scottish, even during the days of Ulster King of Arms.

Here's one dated December 1940, a confirmation of arms to Gwendolilne Grace Mary Tute:

[Ryan Shuflin]

As far as the College of Arms, it says a women can not use arms, not that they can not own them.

I don't know where you get this from - perhaps you meant to say that women can not use crests? Many women have received grants of arms in their own right and use them. I Know of many women who have inherited arms from their father and continue to use the crests they have inherited ... with or without the approval of the College.[/quote]

oops, that's what I meant, I have a bad habit of typing wrong things like that.

[steven harris]

Everything Martin said, with the addition that on the OCHI website you can see a number of arms with crests granted or confirmed to women, without supporters, back into the late 1930s-early 1940s, long before modern ideas of gender equality would have affected things. This suggests that Irish practice on this point was more or less the same as Scottish, even during the days of Ulster King of Arms.

Here's one dated December 1940, a confirmation of arms to Gwendolilne Grace Mary Tute:

I like it!

[Kathy McClurg]

I've always thought that women's coats of arms do not have a crest, except if they are entitled to supporters. Is that correct?

As in all things heraldic, such conventions are governed by time and jurisdiction.