goutte purpure?

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JMcMillan
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Re: goutte purpure?

Postby JMcMillan » 15 Nov 2012, 14:18

I wonder about the authenticity of the term as given on Italian Wikipedia. The online copy of the vocabulary of heraldic terms used by the old Italian Consulta Araldica--which is the Wikipedia author's reference--defines lagrima (a variant of the normal Italian word for "tear," lacrima) as A foggia di cuore, rovesciato e più stretto, con la codetta piegata, which is to say "An upside down elongated heart shape with the tail bent." It also directs us to the term goccia [d'acqua], the normal Italian word for "drop," cognate with "goutte," which is defined as being the shape of a small upside-down heart with the point to dexter. Neither makes mention of specific terminology for specific tinctures of either lagrime or goccie.

Looking a bit more deeply, we find in the Enciclopedia araldico cavalleresca (1878) that the lagrima is shown the same as the goccia d'acqua but always Argent. Under goccia it says "Drops of water or tears may be placed in arms either in a determinate number or "raining" (in pioggie). This last disposition constitutes gocciato (goutty)." A silver droplet is either a goccia d'acqua or a lagrima and is said to be the most common. A black droplet is a goccia di pece and a red one a goccia di sangue. No mention of specific terms for other tinctures.
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Jeremy Kudlick
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Re: goutte purpure?

Postby Jeremy Kudlick » 17 Nov 2012, 08:27

Henry Gough in 1847 defined gutté as "bestrewed with an indefinite number of drops. The French say Gutté d'argent, etc., but in English heraldry a peculiar term is used for each tincture." He then defines d'argent, de larmes, de sang, de poix, d'huile (or d'olive), and d'or, but does not define a peculiar term for a goutte purpure. Strangely, he also defines a single drop as a gutté or guttée.

It would seem that de vin is a more modern invention. Whether it is actual use by an heraldic authority remains to be seen. I am of the opinion that if peculiar terms are to be used for charges of certain tinctures, then they should be used for all tinctures, so goutte de vin and goutty (goutté) de vin are perfectly acceptable to me.

Gough also described an inverted (or reversed) goutte as an icicle (which seems strangely absent from the Canada Public Register online).
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JMcMillan
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Re: goutte purpure?

Postby JMcMillan » 17 Nov 2012, 12:34

Over time I've become increasingly attracted to Oswald Barron's arguments for greater use of plain English in blazoning. Although I enjoy the romantic appeal of some of the quirks like goutté de larmes, d'eau, de sang, and so on, they do go to make heraldry seem even more obscure, archaic, and inaccessible than it already would be. Goutté de huile is a particular problem, since most people would expect an oil drop to be black or perhaps gold rather than green. So in principle I would prefer "sprinkled with gold (silver, blue, red, black, green) drops."

That said, a foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of small minds, I'm also attracted to using the goutté formula when the droplets are supposed to be something specific. If purple droplets are supposed to represent wine, then I think one should by all means blazon them as "goutté de vin." I've always thought it was a missed opportunity when the College of Arms failed to blazon the white droplets on the bordure of the arms of Loudoun County, Virginia, representing the county's dairy industry, as "goutté de lait."
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Chris Green
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Re: goutte purpure?

Postby Chris Green » 17 Nov 2012, 13:18

As a lover of German rieslings and French beaujolais I find the assumption that "goutte de vin" means purpure unsustainable. There are very few wines that one could properly describe as purple.

Logically "goutte de sang" should be sanguine, which would allow rouge drops to be, say, "goutte de claret" (I know that that is the word we Anglo-Saxons use for red Bordeaux, but since we owned Aquitaine where Bordeaux wine comes from when the word was coined, why not?). So what about goutte of something other than wine for purpure and then there are murrey and bleu celeste. Any ideas?
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steven harris
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Re: goutte purpure?

Postby steven harris » 17 Nov 2012, 23:25

In this case, the perspective armiger's family has roots in some well-known wine making regions and his ancestors worked in that industry.
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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: goutte purpure?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 18 Nov 2012, 15:16

Chris Green wrote:As a lover of German rieslings and French beaujolais I find the assumption that "goutte de vin" means purpure unsustainable. There are very few wines that one could properly describe as purple.

Logically "goutte de sang" should be sanguine, which would allow rouge drops to be, say, "goutte de claret" (I know that that is the word we Anglo-Saxons use for red Bordeaux, but since we owned Aquitaine where Bordeaux wine comes from when the word was coined, why not?). So what about goutte of something other than wine for purpure and then there are murrey and bleu celeste. Any ideas?



I can't think of a purpure liquid, but orange drops could be goutte de jus.

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Jeremy Kudlick
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Re: goutte purpure?

Postby Jeremy Kudlick » 18 Nov 2012, 15:57

Ryan Shuflin wrote:I can't think of a purpure liquid

Grape juice?
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GJKS
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Re: goutte purpure?

Postby GJKS » 05 Dec 2012, 06:15

Ryan Shuflin wrote:
I can't think of a purpure liquid ...


Potassium Permanganate solution?
Gentian Violet?
Regards,
Geoff


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