The royal arms on HM The Queen's new State Coach and on the 1902 State Landau that we were recently looking at elsewhere set my mind on the track of coaches - arms - trains - railway heraldry, a source of pride to both railway companies, their staff and countless thousands of railway enthusiasts young and not-so-young.
Some railway heraldry was granted in due form, but much was assumed, with little or no regard to the status of those from whom the arms or charges were "borrowed".
To get the thread started, can anyone name the true owners of the arms used by the (English) Midland Railway?
Railway/Railroad Heraldry
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Railway/Railroad Heraldry
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Bertilak de Hautdesert
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- Chris Green
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Re: Railway/Railroad Heraldry
The cheekiness of the railway companies knew no bounds. The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway (S&DJR) borrowed two coats of arms and surrounded them with a blue Garter on which they placed the company name in place of "Honi Soit ..."
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Re: Railway/Railroad Heraldry
I am doing this from memory, Chris -
First row: Birmingham, Derby, Bristol
Second row: Leicester, ?, Leeds
Iain Boyd
First row: Birmingham, Derby, Bristol
Second row: Leicester, ?, Leeds
Iain Boyd
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Re: Railway/Railroad Heraldry
Iain,
I believe your missing quarter is City of Lincoln..
I believe your missing quarter is City of Lincoln..
Regards,
Terry Baldwin
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- Chris Green
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Re: Railway/Railroad Heraldry
Iain Boyd wrote:I am doing this from memory, Chris -
First row: Birmingham, Derby, Bristol
Second row: Leicester, ?, Leeds
Iain Boyd
The correct answer to the Midland Railway arms is: 1) Birmingham, 2) Derby, 3) Bristol, 4) Leicester, 5) Lincoln, 6) Leeds. The wyvern crest was supposed to represent the Saxon Kingdom of Mercia. Well done Ian (from memory? extra gold star for that!) and Terry gets an assist.
The Derby arms are lacking two Oak Trees fructed proper.
PS: The blurb with the image of the Midland arms on Wiki gives the cities in the wrong order. Anyone who feels like fixing it?
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Re: Railway/Railroad Heraldry
Chris Green wrote:
PS: The blurb with the image of the Midland arms on Wiki gives the cities in the wrong order. Anyone who feels like fixing it?
There's nothing to stop you doing it yourself.
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Re: Railway/Railroad Heraldry
Chris Green wrote:Iain Boyd wrote:I am doing this from memory, Chris -
First row: Birmingham, Derby, Bristol
Second row: Leicester, ?, Leeds
Iain Boyd
The correct answer to the Midland Railway arms is: 1) Birmingham, 2) Derby, 3) Bristol, 4) Leicester, 5) Lincoln, 6) Leeds. The wyvern crest was supposed to represent the Saxon Kingdom of Mercia. Well done Ian (from memory? extra gold star for that!) and Terry gets an assist.
The Derby arms are lacking two Oak Trees fructed proper.
PS: The blurb with the image of the Midland arms on Wiki gives the cities in the wrong order. Anyone who feels like fixing it?
If you have a link, I can do that.
Regards
Chas
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Chas
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Re: Railway/Railroad Heraldry
Another company with pretensions to a Garter was the North British Railway Company based in Edinburgh (no thought of dissolving the Union in 1844!).
The CoA on the dexter side is Edinburgh - but isn't. What is odd about it?
The CoA on the sinister side is an English town (since 1482 and on and off before that). If Scotland should leave the Union they may well want England to hand it over so that one of their ancient counties can have its county town back. Which town?
The CoA on the dexter side is Edinburgh - but isn't. What is odd about it?
The CoA on the sinister side is an English town (since 1482 and on and off before that). If Scotland should leave the Union they may well want England to hand it over so that one of their ancient counties can have its county town back. Which town?
Chris Green
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Re: Railway/Railroad Heraldry
Not a railway company, but a town that owes much of its 19th and 20th century prosperity to the Great Western Railway, is Swindon.
The blazon is: Quarterly per fesse nebuly Azure and Gules a Pile Argent thereon three Crescents of the second in the first quarter three Castles one and two of the third in the second a Mitre Or in the third and a winged Wheel of the last in the fourth a Chief also of the third thereon a Locomotive Engine proper.Crest : On a Wreath of the Colours a dexter Arm embowed proper grasping two Hammers in saltire Or. Motto : 'Salubritas et Industria' - 'Health and Industry'.
As you may imagine the inclusion of a "Locomotive Engine" in a grant of arms dating from 1901 must have been a tough decision for the College of Arms, and an even tougher one for the heraldic artist who illustrated the grant and every heraldic artist ever since. Allegedly the "correct" depiction is of an engine named "Lord of the Isles", built in 1891/92. Here is a picture:
As you will see from the two illustrations of the CoA, heraldic artists were by no means unanimous about depicting "Lord of the Isles":
The first depiction is pretty faithful, but the second would get the thumbs down from most railway enthusiasts, especially GWR ones.
And why, scream the railway buffs, depict the engine without its tender?!
The blazon is: Quarterly per fesse nebuly Azure and Gules a Pile Argent thereon three Crescents of the second in the first quarter three Castles one and two of the third in the second a Mitre Or in the third and a winged Wheel of the last in the fourth a Chief also of the third thereon a Locomotive Engine proper.Crest : On a Wreath of the Colours a dexter Arm embowed proper grasping two Hammers in saltire Or. Motto : 'Salubritas et Industria' - 'Health and Industry'.
As you may imagine the inclusion of a "Locomotive Engine" in a grant of arms dating from 1901 must have been a tough decision for the College of Arms, and an even tougher one for the heraldic artist who illustrated the grant and every heraldic artist ever since. Allegedly the "correct" depiction is of an engine named "Lord of the Isles", built in 1891/92. Here is a picture:
As you will see from the two illustrations of the CoA, heraldic artists were by no means unanimous about depicting "Lord of the Isles":
The first depiction is pretty faithful, but the second would get the thumbs down from most railway enthusiasts, especially GWR ones.
And why, scream the railway buffs, depict the engine without its tender?!
Chris Green
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Bertilak de Hautdesert
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Re: Railway/Railroad Heraldry
Me again, Chris.
Re the 'arms' of The North British Railway Company -
The arms of Edinburgh on the left include the supporters within the shield
and
the arms on the right are those of Berwick.
Regards,
Iain Boyd
Re the 'arms' of The North British Railway Company -
The arms of Edinburgh on the left include the supporters within the shield
and
the arms on the right are those of Berwick.
Regards,
Iain Boyd
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