Looking for help: Blazon for Maryknoll Priest

[JMcMillan]

What Chris said.

Plus "Goutty de sang" means strewn with droplets Gules, not so-called sanguine.

[Edward Hillenbrand]

Joseph, that you for that correction. Chris, you said "One should never ascribe meanings ex post facto." and I would love to see that as a topic: the meaning of symbolism. One thing I have noted over while reading older heraldic texts is that meanings of charges and such were rarely ascribed to the charges but today we do assign meaning to everything. Should we do this? If so, who is the final arbitrator of what means what, Google?

[Michael F. McCartney]

FWIW a drop of fresh blood looks red (Gules) which then dries to something darker (maybe close to Sanguine, or maybe just a darker shade of Gules).

But artistically IMO the design looks nicer / cleaner if all the gold pieces (gyronny pizza slices and wheels) are the same shade of Or, and all the reddish pieces (slices and drops) are the same shade of Gules. Different renditions of the arms can have different shades of Or and Gules, but each individual rendition should be internally consistent.

[JMcMillan]

But artistically IMO the design looks nicer / cleaner if all the gold pieces (gyronny pizza slices and wheels) are the same shade of Or,

Yes, and apologies for the fact that one of the pizza slices in my emblazonment is slightly off-color, so to speak. Inadvertent use of the wrong shade when filling the field while slapping together the design. They should all be the same shade, as Mike says.

[Edward Hillenbrand]

General question: With this coat of arms, if the potential armiger would like an augmentation of honor pr symbol from a fraternal order, your thoughts?

Specifically Father is a Vigil Honor member of the Order of the Arrow BSAs honor society. He is also a Fourth degree Knight of Columbus. I am leaning towards no, but I also like to have the answers in hand just in case. The OA Vigil honor is Gules, three argent arrows forming an isosceles triangle in a counter -clockwise direction with points at the top, sinister and dexter. I am not sure what the 4th Degree symbols are.

[Chris Green]

General question: With this coat of arms, if the potential armiger would like an augmentation of honor pr symbol from a fraternal order, your thoughts?

I suppose the question should really be addressed to the organisations of which he is a member. They may be pleased; they may have strict rules against such ostentation. We do not know.

Subsidiary point: If such an augmentation is included in the design what would happen were the armiger to be promoted?

Just found the 4th degree Columbus insignia on Wiki:



Not very heraldic. It would ruin a decent CoA.

[Edward Hillenbrand]

Chris, you brought up a good point: what if they are promoted? Fortunately the Catholic Church does not allow for augmentations of honor for priests, so that became a moot point. You are also correct that the KoC 4th degree emblom would ruin any decent blazon: it is a lapel pin: for all intents and purposes a badge.

The priest in question likes Joseph's design/blazon of: "Gyronny of eight Gules and Or, each piece Gules charged with a Catherine wheel Or and each piece Or with a goutte [or drop/droplet] Gules [or de sang] on a native shield with the galero appropriate to his position. Apparently Maryknollers change rank/positions annually and in a few years he may move on to the governing body and earn an extra row of tassels.

The good Father now has a visual rendering of several possible arms, with a lot of help from Joseph McMillan and my wife. He has several web pages to give him perspective and a few books just to add to his confusion!

Now, we wait for Padre.

[Chris Green]

"Gyronny of eight Gules and Or, each piece Gules charged with a Catherine wheel Or and each piece Or with a goutte [or drop/droplet] Gules [or de sang] on a native shield with the galero appropriate to his position.

Getting down to detail:

1) Catherine wheel with a broken wheel, or Catherine wheel that looks like a water wheel?

2) The type of shield would not normally be mentioned in the blazon. According to Boutell the precedent for using a native shield was created when arms were granted by the College of Arms to the British Protectorate of Tanganyika (later Tanzania) in 1961 and shortly afterwards to Uganda. The blazons of each do not specify the use of a native shield, although I have never seen either illustrated otherwise. In Europe several styles of shield evolved. Mostly one sees the "heater" shape (as in my CoA) but the cartouche (oval) was common at one time and countries such as Poland and Italy developed their own versions. But the shape or style is not mentioned in the blazon. The heraldic artist follows local practice or the wishes of the armiger. The other issue regarding the use of the term "native shield" (leaving aside the question of political correctness) is: which natives? The arms of Tanzania and of Uganda are shown on the traditional shield of warriors in East Africa. But there are traditional native shields of several other shapes, round, oval, shapes that defy description such as this:



I believe that some Native American shields were decorated with eagle feathers, a feature that presumably should be included were such a shield to be chosen.

I'm not trying to put obstacles in the way. It's just that when one takes an unusual path in heraldry it is best to be well briefed on possible complications.

[Chas Charles-Dunne]

As to the Order of the Arrow, I think that 1st Corinthians 13:11is appropriate -

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

I appreciate that people are very proud of their Scouting achievements. I know that I was. I carried my Bushman's Thong with me everyday as a key-fob, until it finally disintegrated when I was about 25 years old. But would I put it on my shield, or have it hanging below - no.

I think that it comes down to what is recognised as an organisation worthy of granting an augmentation.

What if Google, or Facebook, or McDonalds gave a certificate for their world-wide employee of the year, would that be worthy of including on the shield?

As to the Knights of Columbus, well, they are not knights for a start. What makes them any different from the Kiwanis, or the Elks, or The Round Table, or The Rotary Club, or for that matter the Better Business Bureau?