Looking for help: Blazon for Maryknoll Priest

[Chris Green]

I do have a few other questions: I thought the Catherine's Wheel was supposed to have a break in it? Also, I used the flag of the Vatican to indicate where or for whom he was tortured. Is that misinformation? Realize I am using a lot of online heraldry books/sites so wrong information is not unheard of.

I did use the lozenge shaped shield as the Father worked in Kenya and that shield has a lot of meaning for Padre.

St Catherine was said to have miraculously caused the wheel to break, so a broken wheel would be appropriate, though this was often not the case in heraldic representations.

I would have said that the poor man was tortured for his faith in Christianity rather than for the Vatican, a political entity. But you should bear in mind that I am a Protestant.

Boutell describes the shield you were thinking of as a "native shield". But this description is rather vague as there are/were many traditional designs throughout the non-European world. I have not come across Joe's "vesica shaped" before. It is certainly accurate, as Wiki explains:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesica_piscis

but not readily identifiable in heraldic circles. You might prefer to describe it as a Kenyan traditional shield. I should add that the blazons of Kenya's and Tanzania's arms do not, according to Boutell, mention that the shields are African.

[Edward Hillenbrand]

Thanks Chris, some good info there. With all the great input and corrections I think I am ready to try another draft & see who Father likes it.

[Mike_Oettle]

Edward, this has been an intriguing conversation, and I am curious to know what design you came up with.
It did strike me as odd, though, that nobody suggested a gyronny field for the arms with the Catherine wheel counterchanged. That, to my mind, would have made for an interesting effect.
Regards,
Mike

[Edward Hillenbrand]

The priest in question has not let me know his preferences. Winter is a busy time for him as Maryknoll has their main meetings, a retreat and other activities. I hope to get him back on track with this in the next few weeks.

[Edward Hillenbrand]

Well, I finally got an answer from Padre. He liked Joseph's first design. I believe the Knights of Columbus will pay registration with the American College of Heraldry, we just need to do the blazon with the priestly headgear. Any takers? Thanks in advance.

[Michael F. McCartney]

FWIW Joe's first design was my favorite too. It should look nice on pretty much any shield shape.

On that note, the shape of the shield isn't usually addressed in the blazon since the arms (the design on the shield) is heraldically the same whatever shield or banner it's displayed on. It's basically just a matter of heraldic license, though the owner of the arms is of course free to direct the artist(s) to always use the vesica shape if he wishes. However if at some point he needs an heraldic banner, the arms will be displayed on the square or rectangular field of the flag.

Harking back to earlier in the thread re: whether or not it's appropriate to use tools of torture as heraldic charges - gee, if not, what was the cross? Whatever else it may or may not represent, it wasn't a peaceful and painless passing...

[Chris Green]

Harking back to earlier in the thread re: whether or not it's appropriate to use tools of torture as heraldic charges - gee, if not, what was the cross? Whatever else it may or may not represent, it wasn't a peaceful and painless passing...

Indeed. However the empty cross is intended to represent the triumph of Jesus Christ over death (as against the crucifix which depicts his death). Similarly the correct representation of the Catherine wheel as broken was intended to represent St Catherine's miraculous breaking of the wheel on which it was intended that she be tortured to death. If the means of her death were to be depicted the CoA would depict an executioner's axe.

In the CoA which has been discussed here, the priest in whose memory the CoA was to be designed died in prison, but I think I am right in saying, not as a result of torture.

I remain firmly of the opinion that the depiction of modern torture tools on a CoA would be inappropriate, though there might - just - be a case for it were there to be evidence of divine intervention to render the instrument ineffective (much as St Catherine's wheel was broken).

[JMcMillan]

Well, I finally got an answer from Padre. He liked Joseph's first design. I believe the Knights of Columbus will pay registration with the American College of Heraldry, we just need to do the blazon with the priestly headgear. Any takers? Thanks in advance.

The blazon could be done several different ways. My preference would be "Gyronny of eight Gules a Catherine wheel Or and Or a drop of blood Gules."

Alternatives:
"Gyronny of eight Gules and Or, each piece Gules charged with a Catherine wheel Or and each piece Or with a goutte [or drop/droplet] Gules [or de sang]."

"Gyronny of eight Gules and Or four Catherine wheels Or and four gouttes Gules." [This presupposes that the artist is smart enough to put the gold charges on red and the red charges on gold.]

"Gyronny of eight Gules and Or an orle of four Catherine wheels Or alternating with as many gouttes Gules."

There is no need to blazon the galero, any more than there is to blazon a helmet, but you could simply say "the shield ensigned with a galero of his rank."

[Edward Hillenbrand]

My preference is for this blazon:

"Gyronny of eight Gules and Or, each piece Gules charged with a Catherine wheel Or and each piece Or with a goutte [or drop/droplet] Gules [or de sang]."

However, would it be more correct for the gouttes to be sanguine? First because spilled blood IS maron in color, and several sites, including the ACH gives the meaning of patient in battle, yet victorious?

Thanx again. And just think, Father only took a year and half! When I developed my CoA I think I took over seven years!

[Chris Green]

However, would it be more correct for the gouttes to be sanguine? First because spilled blood IS maron in color, and several sites, including the ACH gives the meaning of patient in battle, yet victorious?

We have discussed the use of sanguine previously. I think the general view is that sanguine should be used rarely and never where gules is also present. The two tinctures are simply too similar to be readily distinguishable.

As for tinctures having a meaning, it can only be the case where the original armiger specifically stated that the tinctures in their CoA had that meaning. One should never ascribe meanings ex post facto.