IHD Shield. Badge Options for vote!

General Heraldry subjects

Which Badge do you Prefer?

Poll ended at 10 Apr 2015, 11:53

1. All Argent
2
17%
2. Azure with Argent Oak and Shields
2
17%
3. Azure with Argent Oak and Or Shields
1
8%
4. Azure with Argent Oak, Or Shields and Gules Ties
7
58%
 
Total votes: 12

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Chris Green
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Re: IHD Shield. Badge Options for vote!

Postby Chris Green » 08 Apr 2015, 16:18

Otherwise if we wish to proscribe red.. go for it!

Proscribe i.e forbid? Or prescribe i.e. lay down authoritatively? My money is on the latter, but you never know.
Chris Green
IAAH President

Bertilak de Hautdesert

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Kathy McClurg
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Location: USA

Re: IHD Shield. Badge Options for vote!

Postby Kathy McClurg » 08 Apr 2015, 17:49

Chris Green wrote:
Otherwise if we wish to proscribe red.. go for it!

Proscribe i.e forbid? Or prescribe i.e. lay down authoritatively? My money is on the latter, but you never know.


Spelling is not my strength. No red squiggle -- I generally don't proofread informal communications.

Now that the English police are done... perhaps the heraldic point should be considered.
Be well,
Kathy

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Claus K Berntsen
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Joined: 15 Jul 2012, 22:58
Location: Sweden

Re: IHD Shield. Badge Options for vote!

Postby Claus K Berntsen » 08 Apr 2015, 18:24

I must say I don't understand why so many feel a need to blazon every little detail, even though it won't change the actual arms. Does it matter if the ribbons are red, gold, silver or blue? Would it change the arms/badge?

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Kathy McClurg
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Location: USA

Re: IHD Shield. Badge Options for vote!

Postby Kathy McClurg » 10 Apr 2015, 12:02

Thank you for your participation. The Badge is registered with the United States Heraldic Register and the Armorial Register as:

On a hurt an oak tree erased Argent with 8 shields of varying styles hung from the boughs Or strapped Gules the trunk charged with a heater shield Or and scroll bearing the date 10 Juni 1128 Argent.

The entirely Argent version will be used as a "line drawing" of the badge and as part of the International Heraldry Day Seal.
Be well,
Kathy

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J Duncan of Sketraw
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Location: Scotland
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Re: IHD Shield. Badge Options for vote!

Postby J Duncan of Sketraw » 10 Apr 2015, 14:09

The registration is now up on the Armorial Register - International Register of arms and gives details of the Arms, Badges and Flag of International Heraldry Day plus the rational behind their composition.

http://www.armorial-register.com/arms-us/international-hd-arms.html

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Mike_Oettle
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Location: Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape, South Africa

Re: IHD Shield. Badge Options for vote!

Postby Mike_Oettle » 07 May 2015, 22:39

It is a pity I missed this discussion before the cut-off date, as the logo is puzzling in several respects.
Chiefly I question the use of the date 1128, because the implication is that heraldry did not exist before that date.

I will agree that this is the earliest fully recorded instance of the adoption (granting?) of a coat of arms, but the use of heraldry on shields goes back at least to the time of the First Crusade (1096–1099) — a great many knights of Flemish origin (particularly those resident in England) bore coats of arms during this pilgrimage-cum-war of conquest. Those who did not have coat-armour recognised its usefulness and began adopting their own devices to the extent that by the time of the Second Crusade (1145–1149) most knights from all parts of Europe had some form of heraldry.

There is considerable evidence that forerunners of armorial devices were to be seen among Flemish knights well before William of Normandy’s venture into England in 1066, in the form of banners, and that the system arose among descendants of Charlemagne.

In one respect I do like the logo, in that it shows a variety of shields. The types of shields and their proper use was a subject I dealt with in Armoria.
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life.
[Proverbs 14:27]

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Torsten Laneryd
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Re: IHD Shield. Badge Options for vote!

Postby Torsten Laneryd » 07 May 2015, 23:33

The question is was armory hereditary before 1128?

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Kathy McClurg
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Location: USA

Re: IHD Shield. Badge Options for vote!

Postby Kathy McClurg » 08 May 2015, 02:20

Mike,

I think we all are aware that heraldry developed over a number of years. However, given we were looking for a single date and this one has record, it's the date which was proposed by Tomasz and the one we have been using for 3 years because it is the first known recording of a fully formed coat of arms during a knighting. There is no intention and none of the literature, justification for use of this date, nor advertising says or implies that there is a single "start date" of heraldry. this is merely a convenient single date with relevant historical documentation.

Torsten,

There is an ongoing conversation on the American Heraldry Society as to whether "inheritance" is "required" for heraldry to be heraldry. I am currently of the opinion that when one raises their viewpoint to an international context that heraldry "requires" a shield and a system or framework for design of that shield. I am not convinced that "heraldry" -- the systematic placement of charges on a shield (my personal working definition) requires inheritance as part of the framework. There are others that believe larger systems of identification such as the Mons system in Japan should be considered heraldry and others who believe the system must include inheritance.

I'd suggest if you'd like to have a similar discussion here, you start a new thread - It can be a long one!
Be well,
Kathy

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Mike_Oettle
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Re: IHD Shield. Badge Options for vote!

Postby Mike_Oettle » 14 May 2015, 21:42

Kathy, point taken. I just wanted to be sure that nobody was being dogmatic about that date.

There is evidence that the banner-based heraldry of the Flemings was hereditary, but it is insufficient for us to be certain to what extent that was the case.

The other aspect I intended to mention was with regard to the actual wording of the date.
Since the artist is German, he wrote the date in his own language, hence 10 JUNI 1128.
I have no objection to this, but IAAH conducts its business in English, which would require 10 JUNE 1128 . . . but that could involve the creation of dozens of different versions, each bearing the date in a different language.
To my mind the obvious compromise would have been to render the month as a numeral — but since on either side of the Pond we do this in different order, it would have caused confusion.
I would write it as 10 06 1128, but to our American brethren this would read October the 6th . . .
Better to leave it as it is.
Regards,
Mike
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life.
[Proverbs 14:27]

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Kathy McClurg
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012, 09:46
Location: USA

Re: IHD Shield. Badge Options for vote!

Postby Kathy McClurg » 16 May 2015, 10:57

Agree all above, Mike. Being international by definition means we can't please everyone - but we try!
Be well,
Kathy

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