Arms for the cousins

The depictions of coats of arms
Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 01 Aug 2017, 16:02

Chris Green wrote:
The bridge over water is a cant on “sea ford,” the origin of the name (via Salford).


It is extremely far-fetched to claim that a crenellated bridge is canting for "sea ford". Bridges have only been built to connect two land masses separated by sea in our life-time and are never found with crenellation. Fords have never practicable to cross seas except to reach coastal islands such as St Michael's Mount, and very rarely to cross fully-developed rivers. The only example I can think of that might properly be described as a sea-ford was Blanchetaque, scene of a sharp engagement between King Edward III's army and a French force on 24 August 1346. Blanchetaque was near the mouth of the River Somme where it is tidal and might thus be described as a sea-ford.

There are towns in England called both Seaford and Salford. Neither has arms that could by any stretch of the imagination be described as canting.


I also question the leap from Salford to Seaford, and the leap from Safford to Seaford. Especially if places named Salford are not near the sea. Sal might be related to Saale the name of no less than three rivers in Germany. According to the Wiki, its name means marsh or river meadow. That is also disputed.

Of course canting doesn't have to take etymology into account. The city of Orange's name is not etymologically related to the fruit. Yet the fruit tree is in its coat of arms. The arms is nice, but the sea bridge as canting is a stretch. I mean if you just put a picture of the arms and the name, no one is going to make the connection (I think)

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MenkAndemicael
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby MenkAndemicael » 01 Aug 2017, 17:18

Not sure of the validity of the "Dictionary of names" ancestry links to, but they mention the aforementioned Ouse river and Seaford exclusively, not Salford. So by this, it is indeed a river crossing near the ocean, not crossable ocean shallows.
https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=safford

Maybe more of a stretch, but I wonder if simply ditching the bridge entirely, combined with the chalice would imply fording by walking on water?
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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby Michael F. McCartney » 01 Aug 2017, 17:36

As Arthur mentioned, the bridge can refer to a connection of some sort - e.g. bridging the geographical disbursement of the family, or whatever - apart from the canting references of the other charges.

In any case, your latest design (omitting the bridge) is also quite nice!! I am curious re: the one gold bendlet in the wavy armorial sea - could it allude to saffron? Or a golden path across the water? Or just because you like it? (Objectively, as good a reason as any...)
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MenkAndemicael
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby MenkAndemicael » 01 Aug 2017, 17:59

I'm not sure. I think if there was a stronger (or any) connection to English family there today, then the bridge representing linking the continents (as opposed to a cant on the name) would make sense. But they aren't even really immigrants as they were here before there was an America to travel to!

The gold in this simpler version is just to balance it... and indeed suggest a path of sorts.
Last edited by MenkAndemicael on 01 Aug 2017, 18:22, edited 1 time in total.

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MenkAndemicael
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby MenkAndemicael » 01 Aug 2017, 18:10

I do think the bridge's battlements in my original also suggest a fort by the sea, as in "sea fort" in addition to a place to cross water, a "sea ford." That was my thinking in adding them instead of just leaving flat.

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Chris Green
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby Chris Green » 01 Aug 2017, 20:41

I wonder if simply ditching the bridge entirely, combined with the chalice would imply fording by walking on water?


How about:

1) Barry wavy of eight Argent and Azure, between two Flaunches Vert, on each a Chalice, a Bar Or.

2) Vert two Chalices Or on a Pile barry wavy of eight Argent and Azure a Bar Or.
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MenkAndemicael
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby MenkAndemicael » 01 Aug 2017, 23:09

I had forgotten... the blazon for the azure and and argent barry wavy device is actually a ford proper.
As in the canting arms of Oxford below. That may remove the need to depict land or crossings at all.

Perhaps there's something to complete this to represent the "Sa-" or "Sea-" in Safford. Any ideas (other than a saw?)
Perhaps a Sea-Lion guardant (an aquatic variant of the beast on the english Ipswich COA). And carrying a chalice, of course. Certainly a good basis for the crest.
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MenkAndemicael
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby MenkAndemicael » 02 Aug 2017, 02:35

some variants using coasts/riverbanks, for consideration.
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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby Michael F. McCartney » 03 Aug 2017, 06:06

Your last four also strike me as viable options, along with your original with and without the bridge.

Have you considered sharing some or all with a few of your living Safford relatives whose opinions on other topics have been generally accepted by that family? Including the living matriarch(s) if she/they are at all open to the idea...

The final result will after all be their arms, and participation in the design process should promote buy-in and a sense of family ownership, whether or not they happen to settle on what we, or you, might have preferred. (You can always omit any you really don't care for, from consideration ;) )

You should include the proposed symbolism, along with your artwork (which is quite good) so they can appreciate the "why" behind the designs.

Though it can be painful to cede ownership of your babies!! :)
Michael F. McCartney
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Bruce E Weller
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby Bruce E Weller » 03 Aug 2017, 10:40

My vote, with your "fort" note in mind would be for the first example and forget the canting aspect.
I am mindful that, with a largish family connection, you might find various branches opting for one or another of the variations. They will, I feel, make a tasteful statement of relationships?
Best of luck with the presentation.


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