Arms for the cousins

The depictions of coats of arms
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MenkAndemicael
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby MenkAndemicael » 03 Aug 2017, 23:56

Yes! I have been including several of them from the beginning. I think they're tracking down a family bible, which would be a gem if not for heritable arms, than something to base modified arms on.

As for the cant, I'm opting for a "strong suggestion" of one, by suggesting both the sea and a ford in the combined arms, crest, and tinctures. The blazon will certainly contain a ford proper to describe the waves in base.

I've gone a head and done a full achievement (yes, I should turn the helmet sideways):

The crest features a sea-lion. It is based on the English arms of the town of Ipswich, which feature both a lion on the shield, and one holding a ship for the crest. I've made it an aquatic lion to reflect the "Sea" origin of SA-fford and placed him on top of a fountain, to reference the ford proper in the arms.

For a motto, one rough idea: a religious reference to [bearing] the water of everlasting life, or "offering relief" to the world. This would tie in with both the chalice theme and the medical practice history of the family. Ideally it will be abstract enough to apply to Saffords in their line who didn't become doctors as well.
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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby Michael F. McCartney » 04 Aug 2017, 06:12

To my mind, the one on the viewer's left is nicest, though the other two are also nice.

My reaction is based on relative simplicity and the resulting larger chalice, which are big plusses for me. But as always, my vote (or anyone else's outside the family), in the long run, doesn't count.

In any case, you now have a set of three attractive and heraldically acceptable options, all drawn in the same style (so artistic "packaging" won't skew the votes), to share with the family. It will be interesting to see how they react!

By the way, the crest they all share is nice too! But you might mention to the family that while the selected arms themselves (shield) will represent the whole family, it would be acceptable for various branches to vary the crest if they wish. (Ulterior motive - give those who may disagree with whatever general consensus may form re: which shield, an outlet for their creative juices...)
Last edited by Michael F. McCartney on 04 Aug 2017, 06:20, edited 2 times in total.
Michael F. McCartney
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Chris Green
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby Chris Green » 04 Aug 2017, 06:12

"A ford proper" would not be interpreted by most as barry wavy (of six) azure and argent. "Proper" means that the charge described should look like it does in real life. Whoever described the arms of the City of Oxford as ".... passing a ford of water in base proper" was sadly in error. The correct blazon is: Argent an Ox Gules armed and unguled Or passing over a Ford of Water in base barry wavy Azure and Argent.. "A ford of water proper" would of necessity have to be landscape heraldry, with banks on both sides and water that looks like water.
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JMcMillan
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby JMcMillan » 04 Aug 2017, 14:29

Chris Green wrote:"A ford proper" would not be interpreted by most as barry wavy (of six) azure and argent. "Proper" means that the charge described should look like it does in real life. Whoever described the arms of the City of Oxford as ".... passing a ford of water in base proper" was sadly in error. The correct blazon is: Argent an Ox Gules armed and unguled Or passing over a Ford of Water in base barry wavy Azure and Argent.. "A ford of water proper" would of necessity have to be landscape heraldry, with banks on both sides and water that looks like water.


So one might suppose, but perhaps not. A roundel barry wavy argent and azure is traditionally if confusingly blazoned as "a fountain proper" (Parker), and the base barry wavy argent and azure in the arms of the Elizabethan sea dog Sir John Hawkins (among many others) is blazoned as "waves of the sea proper." As for the matter of "whoever described the arms of the city of Oxford," the "whoever" was apparently Richard Lee, Portcullis, in the 1574 visitation of Oxfordshire.

Not that I think it's a good idea to replicate this practice today, when the post-Elizabethan rise of landscape heraldry has created a risk of confusion. But it would make sense, to clarify that what is depicted is intended to represent a ford and not an ocean, to blazon a similar element today as "a ford barry wavy argent and azure," or words to that effect.
Joseph McMillan
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JMcMillan
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby JMcMillan » 04 Aug 2017, 15:11

Somewhat irrelevantly--or irreverently--the placeholder phrase "Think of a motto?" reminds me of the story from World War II, when the commander of the joint U.S.-Canadian Special Service Force directed that the motto scroll on the arms devised for the unit by the U.S. Army Heraldic Services Branch simply be left blank until someone happened to say something heroic.
Joseph McMillan
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MenkAndemicael
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby MenkAndemicael » 04 Aug 2017, 17:38

ha. that's great

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JMcMillan
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Re: Arms for the cousins

Postby JMcMillan » 05 Aug 2017, 01:48

JMcMillan wrote:
Chris Green wrote:"A ford proper" would not be interpreted by most as barry wavy (of six) azure and argent. "Proper" means that the charge described should look like it does in real life.


So one might suppose, but perhaps not.


Evidence on the opposite side from those I quoted comes from the glossary in Brooke-Little's 1970 edition of Boutell's Heraldry: "Waves of the sea--usually represented naturally." Brooke-Little also distinguishes between heraldic and natural fountains. So perhaps one might blazon a base barry wavy as a "heraldic ford."
Joseph McMillan
Alexandra, Virginia, USA


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