Why isn't Orange a Tincture?

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Chris Green
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Re: Why isn't Orange a Tincture?

Postby Chris Green » 03 Jul 2013, 11:10

I take strong exception against Orange being a ghastly color ! We put our national teams in that color and it is beautiful.


It is interesting that the Netherlands uses orange as its national colour (though its flag is now red/white/blue rather than orange/white/blue). The Principality of Orange in southern France, from which the royal House of Orange-Nassau came, had nothing whatever to do with oranges or the colour. The colour seems to have become associated with the family in the 16th century (Ton - please correct me if I am wrong!), and through William (I) of Orange's championship of the Protestant cause against Spain with Protestantism in general. Thus when William (III) of Orange became British King in 1688 and went on to defeat James II at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, orange became associated with the Protestant ascendancy in Ulster- hence the Orange Order "the Orangemen".

The coat of arms of the Principality of Orange included three oranges - but they were gold!

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Jeremy Keith Hammond
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Re: Why isn't Orange a Tincture?

Postby Jeremy Keith Hammond » 03 Jul 2013, 16:53

I'm a fan of orange. ;)

And not to be biased, but Orange does exist (albeit rarely) as a heraldic tincture. Even Fox-Davies refers to Orange being used on the continent (not in British heraldry) and being distinguished from Tenne (which is illustrated in modern British heraldry as orange). Orange is also used in coats of arms from South Africa and The US Army Institute of Heraldry produces arms which also use the tincture.
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Chris Green
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Re: Why isn't Orange a Tincture?

Postby Chris Green » 03 Jul 2013, 17:24

Orange is also used in coats of arms from South Africa


Not surprising given the connection with the Netherlands. South Africa's Free State province was once Orange Free State, and Orange River is the longest in South Africa.
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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Why isn't Orange a Tincture?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 03 Jul 2013, 22:28

Chris Green wrote:
I take strong exception against Orange being a ghastly color ! We put our national teams in that color and it is beautiful.


It is interesting that the Netherlands uses orange as its national colour (though its flag is now red/white/blue rather than orange/white/blue). The Principality of Orange in southern France, from which the royal House of Orange-Nassau came, had nothing whatever to do with oranges or the colour. The colour seems to have become associated with the family in the 16th century (Ton - please correct me if I am wrong!), and through William (I) of Orange's championship of the Protestant cause against Spain with Protestantism in general. Thus when William (III) of Orange became British King in 1688 and went on to defeat James II at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, orange became associated with the Protestant ascendancy in Ulster- hence the Orange Order "the Orangemen".

The coat of arms of the Principality of Orange included three oranges - but they were gold!

Image


That is actually the coat of arms as the city of Orange, the arms of the Principality make up the chief.

Iain Boyd
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Re: Why isn't Orange a Tincture?

Postby Iain Boyd » 04 Jul 2013, 05:47

I can readily understand your love of orange, Ton.

I actually like purple very much and do not mind orange.

I think it is a matter of individual taste, although, if one is negotiating with a granting authority I suspect that Lyon Court may not be quite as accommodating as the College of Arms (under its present membership) while the Canadian Authority seems to be quite liberal.

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Iain Boyd

PS

Recently, I have been browsing the civic heraldry of Portugal on Ralf Hartemink's website and have noticed that quite a few of the arms include purple although none appear to include orange!

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Ton de Witte
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Re: Why isn't Orange a Tincture?

Postby Ton de Witte » 04 Jul 2013, 09:26

Chris Green wrote:
I take strong exception against Orange being a ghastly color ! We put our national teams in that color and it is beautiful.


It is interesting that the Netherlands uses orange as its national colour (though its flag is now red/white/blue rather than orange/white/blue). The Principality of Orange in southern France, from which the royal House of Orange-Nassau came, had nothing whatever to do with oranges or the colour. The colour seems to have become associated with the family in the 16th century (Ton - please correct me if I am wrong!), and through William (I) of Orange's championship of the Protestant cause against Spain with Protestantism in general. Thus when William (III) of Orange became British King in 1688 and went on to defeat James II at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, orange became associated with the Protestant ascendancy in Ulster- hence the Orange Order "the Orangemen".

The coat of arms of the Principality of Orange included three oranges - but they were gold!

Image


on special occasions (royal birthdays etc) an orange pennant is attached above the flag, and actually the flag was orange white blue to begin with (livery colours of William of Orange) but the orange kept fading and the flag became red white blue which it still is today.
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Bruce E Weller
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Re: Why isn't Orange a Tincture?

Postby Bruce E Weller » 06 Jul 2013, 11:31

Perhaps availability, permanence or toxicity may be answers to the original query.
As far as I have been able to dig, realgar (α-As4S4) was the only pure orange pigment until modern chrome orange. It is an ancient pigment but unlike orpiment is uncommon in medieval paintings. Orpiment, or King's yellow (a yellowish mineral (As2S3) also toxic) is apparently a decay product of realgar, and is found in paintings from the 1300's.

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RBeste
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Re: Why isn't Orange a Tincture?

Postby RBeste » 06 Jan 2016, 19:24

I like Tenne (which is usually shown as orange). That's why it's a part of my COA (the pierced mullet). The simple fact that it's a rare stain helps the uniqueness of the arms.

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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Why isn't Orange a Tincture?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 09 Jan 2016, 16:56

Ton de Witte wrote:on special occasions (royal birthdays etc) an orange pennant is attached above the flag, and actually the flag was orange white blue to begin with (livery colours of William of Orange) but the orange kept fading and the flag became red white blue which it still is today.


I have read somewhere, I forget where, that the real reason was more political: that the republicans changed it, and the cost of orange was used as an excuse, as not to offend the Orangists too much.

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Ton de Witte
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Re: Why isn't Orange a Tincture?

Postby Ton de Witte » 11 Jan 2016, 08:45

Could be, such things always have multiple explanations and motivations why they are changed.
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