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Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 12:20
by JMcMillan
andrewkerensky wrote:Well I have asked the DAR request team if they can help me with a design. I do have a fairly straight forward design. It shouldn't really be a difficult design. I basically have 2 elements and a shield, i'd just like the elements to be tastefully done. The shield to be perhaps 16th century or 'Swiss' in design. If I can't move my project forward i'll hire a tattoo artist (i'm informed they are pretty good with Shield design.)


I'm not explaining myself very well. If you haven't settled on the basic design of the arms--i.e., what is on the shield, conceptually and not in artistic detail?--then it's premature to be worrying about the shape of the shield for one particular emblazonment. Once the arms are settled, you can have them painted, carved, engraved, or tattooed on a plain 13th century heater, an Italian horse-head, an 18th century spade, or a rococo cartouche.

I personally don't see anything particularly wrong with the sackbut and thistle, although thistles are sort of hackneyed as symbols of "I have Scottish ancestors." (You may have some other reason for using a thistle, of course, and in any event they're your arms.) But if I were advising, I'd suggest simply a sackbut and nothing else. It would fit well either vertically or bendwise. It's distinctive and certainly not over-used.

Maybe I'm not fully understanding: are you committed to the design "Per chevron a sackbut fesswise and a thistle"? If so, I don't understand why there's still anything to discuss with the SABH or the IAAH design team. What am I missing?

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Posted: 30 Oct 2014, 22:26
by JMcMillan
It looks very nice in color. The blazon is very straightforward: Per chevron Vert and Or in chief a sackbut fesswise Or and in base a thistle slipped and leaved proper. Or, alternatively, Per chevron Vert a sackbut fesswise and Or a thistle slipped and leaved proper.

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Posted: 31 Oct 2014, 06:57
by Chris Green
One thing perplexes me. Why "Blue-throated nightingale"? Your crest depicts the Bluethroat (luscinia svecica) which is a flycatcher not a nightingale.

http://www.oiseaux-birds.com/card-bluethroat.html

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Posted: 03 Nov 2014, 16:43
by Ryan Shuflin
Swedish nightingale refers to an opera singer in English. However, the scientific name: luscinia svecica can be translated as Swedish nightingale. Luscinia is the genus to which nightingale belong, which is part of the family of flycatchers. Either way, blue-throated nightingale is a confusing description. I would use bluethroat for the blazon. So for the crest: a bluethroat perched and wings closed Proper I think using the clearly avian terms perched and wings, will make sure the reader knows it is a bird and not a human throat Azure.

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Posted: 03 Nov 2014, 16:53
by Chris Green
It just occurred to me you live in Sweden so you would be able to confirm if the Bluethroat is regarded as the Swedish Nightingale...


No. The Swedish name is "BlÄhake" which translates as .... you guessed it .... "Bluethroat".

The Swedish Nightingale was Jenny Lind.

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Posted: 03 Nov 2014, 22:27
by JMcMillan
Ryan Shuflin wrote:So for the crest: a bluethroat perched and wings closed Proper I think using the clearly avian terms perched and wings, will make sure the reader knows it is a bird and not a human throat Azure.


Nothing wrong with this blazon, but the more normal and concise form would be simply "A bluethroat close proper." That doesn't help as much with distinguishing it from the human throat, but given the confusion over the species, it might be advisable to insert "Luscinia svecica" in the blazon in any case. "A bluethroat (Luscinia svecica) close proper."

But in any case I suspect Marcel and colleagues are capable of putting together a correct blazon, even if they're not experts in ornithology.

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Posted: 11 Nov 2014, 08:53
by Arthur Radburn

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Posted: 12 Nov 2014, 09:57
by Martin Goldstraw
Members may add their arms to the Gallery by sending the image and details to me (please use the type of details as set out in the other entries to keep it uniform). The image should ideally be approximately 500 pixels wide.

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Posted: 12 Nov 2014, 16:13
by Martin Goldstraw
There are many sites on the internet where arms may be registered. I have a declared interest in one of them so I ought to resist promoting it.

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Posted: 18 Nov 2014, 09:51
by Arthur Radburn
andrewkerensky wrote:So good to hear that the Court of Lyon recognise the BoH as a legitimate body in respect to Heraldry and the registration there of.
Why wouldn't they? It's an official heraldry authority that operates under an Act of Parliament.

The Lord Lyon is evidently very courteous towards foreign heraldry authorities. Not only will he not "invade' England heraldically but, for the past two or three years, his website has stated that he won't grant arms to people in Canada or South Africa, because they have their own heraldry authorities. Interestingly, he doesn't mention Kenya or Zimbabwe, which are also Commonwealth countries with their own heraldry authorities (of sorts).