Depictions of English Arms through History

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Daniel Gill
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Depictions of English Arms through History

Postby Daniel Gill » 15 Oct 2012, 02:21

I'm looking for a historian of English heraldry because I am not one by any stretch of the imagination. I'm working on a project to emblazon the arms of various English knights through history (13th c. - 20th c.) in a manner that is consistent with their historical setting, i.e. how would these arms have been depicted when the armiger lived? I know the CoA has a system of external ornaments to distinguish the ranks of nobles and gentry, but I don't know how this system developed or by which date it was as it exists today.

Is anyone here comfortable enough with English heraldry to be of help?
(Fr.) Daniel C. Gill

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Arthur Radburn
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Re: Depictions of English Arms through History

Postby Arthur Radburn » 15 Oct 2012, 13:05

Daniel, is the following any help? It's compiled from various sources, very much on an 'E & OE' basis.

Helmet : until circa 1610, knights had tilting helms. Since then, they have had a helmet with an open visor. Until the 1970s, the helmet was always affronté, but since then it has faced the same direction as the crest.

Mantling : until the 16th century there doesn’t seem to have been a hard and fast rule about tinctures. From the 16th century until late 18th/early 19th century, most mantlings were Gules doubled Argent, irrespective of the tinctures of the arms or the torse. Since then, the norm has been to use the first colour and first metal mentioned in the blazon.

Shield shape : heater shape in the Middle Ages. In the 15th century, a straight-sided shield with a pointed base was used. Later periods saw exotic 'rococo' and 'baroque' shields. Heater shape has been fairly standard again since early 20th century.

Insignia of knighthood : Knights of the Garter place the Garter around their shields (since late 15th century). Knights Grand Cross of other orders have the collar of the order around the shield with the badge of the order suspended from a sash at the bottom. Knights Companion have the circlet of the order with the badge on a neck ribbon suspended from the bottom. Since 1974, Knights Bachelor have had a neck badge which can be suspended below the shield (no circlet).

Compartment : in the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries, supporters stood on "gas brackets". Since the 1920s, a grassy mound has served as compartment, unless the blazon specifies some other design.

There are examples of paintings from various periods on the CoA website (http://college-of-arms.gov.uk), and several 15th-century patents on http://verysleepy.itgo.com/grants.htm . A browse through old editions of Debrett's Peerage, Burke's Peerage etc would yield 18th- and 19th-century period examples. There are some editions online at Google Books and Archive.org.
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Arthur Radburn

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Daniel Gill
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Re: Depictions of English Arms through History

Postby Daniel Gill » 15 Oct 2012, 14:34

This is exactly the sort of information I'm looking for. My project is aimed at Knights of the Garter in case that matters, which in many cases are also upper nobility so if one could provide some background on the depiction of peer's arms that would be helpful. The following are some questions I still have.
1. Was there ever a tendency or preference for cap of maintenance over a torse?
2. How has the peer coronet system use today in arms changed over the ages?
3. When did bar-helm come about for upper nobility?
4. When did supporters become typical?

What is a "gas bracket", by the way?
(Fr.) Daniel C. Gill

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Chas Charles-Dunne
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Re: Depictions of English Arms through History

Postby Chas Charles-Dunne » 15 Oct 2012, 15:00

Here is a very good example of a gas bracket:

Image Supporters should be standing on something to support themselves. Quite often they are depicted as standing on a flowing ribbon or such. Very similar to a gas bracket.
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Chas Charles-Dunne
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Re: Depictions of English Arms through History

Postby Chas Charles-Dunne » 15 Oct 2012, 15:06

If you look at the examples in this link, you will see a variety of compartments. Including an Austrian gas bracket like thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartment_%28heraldry%29
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Arthur Radburn
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Re: Depictions of English Arms through History

Postby Arthur Radburn » 15 Oct 2012, 20:42

Daniel Gill wrote:1. Was there ever a tendency or preference for cap of maintenance over a torse?

There was, but I think it is usually specified in the blazon. Until the early 17th century, chapeaux seem to have been reserved for peers.

2. How has the peer coronet system use today in arms changed over the ages?

According to the standard references, dukes and marquesses had them from the 14th century; earls have worn them since the 1440s if not earlier; viscounts were granted them in the early 17th century; and barons were granted them in 1661. However, there weren't specific patterns for the individual ranks until the 17th century.

3. When did bar-helm come about for upper nobility?

Boutell, Fox-Davies, Friar all indicate that it dates from the early 17th century. According to Fox-Davies, "the earliest instance among the Garter stall plates in which a helmet with grilles is used to denote the rank of a peer is the stall plate of Lord Knollys in 1615".

4. When did supporters become typical?

They've been used in England since at least the 14th century.

What is a "gas bracket", by the way?

It's a decorative base which looks rather like the light fitting shown in Chas' photo. Some examples :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_ar ... ape_Colony
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Tasmania .

You may be interested in the Insignia Anglica, a roll of English arms dating from around 1551. It includes the arms of peers and KGs, including helmets, mantling and crests : http://mdzx.bib-bvb.de/codicon/Blatt_bs ... ?prozent=1 .

Also some 16th-century Garter stall plates showing the knights' arms as they were depicted in their lifetimes : http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/micro ... efault.asp .
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Arthur Radburn

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Jeremy Kudlick
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Re: Depictions of English Arms through History

Postby Jeremy Kudlick » 15 Oct 2012, 21:02

Daniel Gill wrote:What is a "gas bracket", by the way?

An example of gas brackets can be found in the original Arms of HM in Right of Canada:
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Daniel Gill
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Re: Depictions of English Arms through History

Postby Daniel Gill » 15 Oct 2012, 23:45

Arthur Radburn wrote:You may be interested in the Insignia Anglica, a roll of English arms dating from around 1551. It includes the arms of peers and KGs, including helmets, mantling and crests : http://mdzx.bib-bvb.de/codicon/Blatt_bs ... ?prozent=1 .

Also some 16th-century Garter stall plates showing the knights' arms as they were depicted in their lifetimes : http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/micro ... efault.asp .
This is very helpful, thanks. Looking at both sources, it seems like everyone, except the King, the King of France, the Emperor, and the King of Spain who each have grilled helms, have tilt helms regardless of rank. Also no one has any coronets even dukes... is that what you meant by no "specific patterns for the individual ranks"? Also, I didn't detect any pattern for caps of maintenance vs. torses.
(Fr.) Daniel C. Gill

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Chris Green
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Re: Depictions of English Arms through History

Postby Chris Green » 16 Oct 2012, 11:59

In case anyone is wondering, Daniel and I are working on the same project. He has the artistic side while i wrestle with the words.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=125
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Arthur Radburn
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Re: Depictions of English Arms through History

Postby Arthur Radburn » 16 Oct 2012, 14:17

Daniel Gill wrote:Looking at both sources, it seems like everyone, except the King, the King of France, the Emperor, and the King of Spain who each have grilled helms, have tilt helms regardless of rank. Also no one has any coronets even dukes... is that what you meant by no "specific patterns for the individual ranks"? Also, I didn't detect any pattern for caps of maintenance vs. torses.

My understanding of the coronets is that, while dukes, marquesses and earls had them from the Middle Ages, it was not until the 17th century that standard designs were laid down for each rank. Before that, it was apparently left to the peers to use whatever patterns they fancied.
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Arthur Radburn


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