College of Arms Newsletters 2019

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Chris Green
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Re: College of Arms Newsletters 2019

Postby Chris Green » 29 Apr 2019, 16:36

I note also that Lord Lyon is to have a cuckoo in his nest in the form of Fitzalan Pursuivant Extraordinary lording it over him as Governor of Edinburgh Castle. :mrgreen:
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Mark Henderson
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Re: College of Arms Newsletters 2019

Postby Mark Henderson » 29 Apr 2019, 16:55

It would have looked better with a darker tincture.
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JMcMillan
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Re: College of Arms Newsletters 2019

Postby JMcMillan » 04 May 2019, 15:57

Martin Goldstraw wrote:Even if the petitioner had Royal Air Force connections, blue can and does still represent the sky and Azure is armorially far better.


Not only that, but any shade of blue (as long as it's recognizable as blue) is a valid representation of "azure." There's really no way of knowing just by looking at a painting, without the blazon, whether something is supposed to be azure or bleu celeste. Source: Letter of Sir Anthony Wagner, Garter, to the U.S. Department of State Historical Office, 18 May 1976, quoted in R. S. Patterson and R. Dougall, The Eagle and the Shield (Washington: GPO, 1978), p. 549: "It is a fundamental principle of heraldry and always has been that azure means simply blue, and not any particular shade of blue and gules means red, and not any particular shade of red and so forth."
Joseph McMillan
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Chris Green
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Re: College of Arms Newsletters 2019

Postby Chris Green » 29 Jul 2019, 11:56

Chris Green
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Bertilak de Hautdesert

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Chris Green
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Re: College of Arms Newsletters 2019

Postby Chris Green » 29 Jul 2019, 12:13

A mystery in the new Newsletter: John Richard Pilley has been granted arms by Letters Patent of Garter, Clarenceux and Norroy and Ulster Kings of Arms (which means that the armiger is "abroad"). Mr Pilley is said to be of South Ayrshire, which of course is in Scotland - where Lord Lyon holds sway (or not?). I can only assume that Mr Pilley is English born and just happens to be living in LL country and that the College isn't therefore elbowing in on LL's territory.
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Martin Goldstraw
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Re: College of Arms Newsletters 2019

Postby Martin Goldstraw » 29 Jul 2019, 15:51

Chris Green wrote:A mystery in the new Newsletter: John Richard Pilley has been granted arms by Letters Patent of Garter, Clarenceux and Norroy and Ulster Kings of Arms (which means that the armiger is "abroad"). Mr Pilley is said to be of South Ayrshire, which of course is in Scotland - where Lord Lyon holds sway (or not?). I can only assume that Mr Pilley is English born and just happens to be living in LL country and that the College isn't therefore elbowing in on LL's territory.


Interesting in that the gentleman clearly qualified for a grant from the College however, this is perhaps no different than the fact that the Lord Lyon will grant arms to any Englishman who can prove Scots descent in the male line (granted that the arms are fictitiously granted to the ancestor and then matriculated in the name of the petitioner). I can't see any reason why the place of domicile should prevent any Englishman (who qualifies) receiving a grant from the College. If Mr. Pilley is domiciled in Scotland, he could have received a grant from the Lord Lyon but clearly he chose not to do so.
Martin Goldstraw
Cheshire Heraldry
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JMcMillan
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Re: College of Arms Newsletters 2019

Postby JMcMillan » 01 Aug 2019, 21:10

Of course, to be lawfully used in South Ayrshire, this foreign grant will need to be matriculated in the Public Register. Which will add £1310 to the grantee's total costs, if I'm reading the Lyon Office fee of schedules correctly.
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Martin Goldstraw
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Re: College of Arms Newsletters 2019

Postby Martin Goldstraw » 02 Aug 2019, 11:22

JMcMillan wrote:Of course, to be lawfully used in South Ayrshire, this foreign grant will need to be matriculated in the Public Register. Which will add £1310 to the grantee's total costs, if I'm reading the Lyon Office fee of schedules correctly.


Good point!
I wonder if he's actually thought of that? I have no doubt that the Lord Lyon will have a copy of the Newsletter so perhaps, if the new armiger hasn't already set in train a matriculation, the Lord Lyon will be reaching for his pen "a first class stamp please Lyon Clerk!".
Martin Goldstraw
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Chris Green
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Re: College of Arms Newsletters 2019

Postby Chris Green » 02 Aug 2019, 15:16

But what does "lawful use" mean in this context? Would any use be unlawful without matriculation? Putting arms on place mats or mugs for use in the home (but visible to visitors)? Hanging a carving of the arms in the entrance hall of his home? What penalty might LL impose for such egregious infractions?
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Chris Green
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Re: College of Arms Newsletters 2019

Postby Chris Green » 28 Oct 2019, 15:17

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