Williams arms

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Arthur Radburn
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Williams arms

Postby Arthur Radburn » 02 Nov 2012, 18:23

Another recent grant as posted on the CoA website ('recent' being a year ago, but posted only in the past few weeks) : the arms of Peter Robert Williams, Esquire, C.B.E., of Malvern in Worcestershire.

Image
They are certainly keeping up with the geometrical style favoured by the late Garter Gwynn-Jones :

Arms: Per saltire per bend wavy of one crest depressed of one point in the centre Gules and Or in chief two Bendlets wavy each of one crest depressed of one point in the centre counterchanged.

Crest: On a Chapeau Vert turned up Argent semy of Crosses botonny fitchy Sable an Owl per pale Gules and Or beaked Or legged Gules holding in the dexter claws a Greek letter Sigma Or.

Badge: Perched upon a Greek letter Sigma fesswise Or enfiled by two Quill Pens in saltire points downwards also Or feathered Argent an Owl per pale Gules and Or beaked Or legged Gules.
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Arthur Radburn

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Chas Charles-Dunne
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Re: Williams arms

Postby Chas Charles-Dunne » 02 Nov 2012, 19:21

Arthur Radburn wrote:Image

Arms: Per saltire per bend wavy of one crest depressed of one point in the centre Gules and Or in chief two Bendlets wavy each of one crest depressed of one point in the centre counterchanged.


I don't think I agree with that blazon at all.

Isn't it "Per bend sinister and per bend wavy of one crest depressed of one point in the centre".

And don't the bendlets cover both chief and dexter - they are only in chief because the shield is canted over. If the shield was upside down, would we blazon it "in base two bendlets ..." I don't think so.

Is this really how they blazoned it at the College? Because it doesn't feel right to me!
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Chas
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steven harris
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Re: Williams arms

Postby steven harris » 02 Nov 2012, 19:46

I do not feel that the blazon is very good either.

What does the "Chapeau Vert turned up Argent" symbolize. IIRC, a red chapeau was used by the holder of a feudal barony, and a blue one by the old
baronial families who no longer owned the prescriptive estate. I do not recall having seen a green one before.
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Arthur Radburn
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Re: Williams arms

Postby Arthur Radburn » 02 Nov 2012, 20:17

Chas Charles-Dunne wrote:Is this really how they blazoned it at the College? Because it doesn't feel right to me!

Cut and pasted from the College website. But it's certainly not the easiest blazon to interpret.

There's precedent for "per saltire per bend wavy". The arms granted to the Union of South Africa in 1910 were quarterly, with the vertical line plain and the horizontal line wavy -- the blazon described this as "quarterly per fess wavy".

But I'd have thought the bendlets could have been described as "enhanced" rather than "in chief".
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Chas Charles-Dunne
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Re: Williams arms

Postby Chas Charles-Dunne » 02 Nov 2012, 21:17

Arthur Radburn wrote:
Chas Charles-Dunne wrote:Is this really how they blazoned it at the College? Because it doesn't feel right to me!

Cut and pasted from the College website. But it's certainly not the easiest blazon to interpret.

There's precedent for "per saltire per bend wavy". The arms granted to the Union of South Africa in 1910 were quarterly, with the vertical line plain and the horizontal line wavy -- the blazon described this as "quarterly per fess wavy".

But I'd have thought the bendlets could have been described as "enhanced" rather than "in chief".


I don't really think that is the same thing. They didn't grant "Per cross per fess wavy", which would have been equal.

I still think the college has blazonned sloppily. The whole point of a blazon is that it should be unambigious - this is not.
The arms themselves are quite striking, but the blazon ...
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Chas
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JMcMillan
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Re: Williams arms

Postby JMcMillan » 02 Nov 2012, 21:42

steven harris wrote:What does the "Chapeau Vert turned up Argent" symbolize. IIRC, a red chapeau was used by the holder of a feudal barony, and a blue one by the old baronial families who no longer owned the prescriptive estate. I do not recall having seen a green one before.


The red and blue thing is Scottish, not English (and a new-fangled innovation from circa 1940, not a genuine tradition, and since abandoned by the present Lyon).

I don't know that anyone has satisfactorily proven that the chapeau/cap of maintenance actually symbolizes anything, any more than a crest coronet does. If they have, I'd be interested in reading the evidence.
Joseph McMillan
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