The arms of the Prince of Wales?

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Ryan Shuflin
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The arms of the Prince of Wales?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 05 May 2013, 12:51

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An attempt to represent more of the titles of the Prince of Wales.

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Chris Green
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Re: The arms of the Prince of Wales?

Postby Chris Green » 05 May 2013, 13:15

Which Prince of Wales Ryan?
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Jonathan Webster
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Re: The arms of the Prince of Wales?

Postby Jonathan Webster » 05 May 2013, 13:22

It's Albert Edward, later known as King Edward VII. There was a uncoloured version of this in the original version of Boutell's Heraldry. It is of course unofficial.

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Chris Green
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Re: The arms of the Prince of Wales?

Postby Chris Green » 05 May 2013, 14:06

Horrid doesn't begin to decribe it. The artist has tried to squeeze in the arms of every lordship he had. Even the text under this monstrosity has the sense to put "&c &c &c" instead of try to list them all.

Imagine if the Royal Arms had had to include the arms of every Dominion and Colony over which Queen Victoria held sway!
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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: The arms of the Prince of Wales?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 08 May 2013, 11:15

There have been arms with more titles, I am not sure why the artist arranged it this way, and included Ireland and Scotland twice, and omits all of the Saxon subsidiary titles. Another thing here is that England doesn't have a strong tradition of representing titles in arms, unlike Scotland and Germany, that and the fact most of the titles don't really have arms, makes combining them all a difficult task.

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Re: The arms of the Prince of Wales?

Postby Jonathan Webster » 10 May 2013, 10:19

Ryan Shuflin wrote:There have been arms with more titles, I am not sure why the artist arranged it this way, and included Ireland and Scotland twice, and omits all of the Saxon subsidiary titles. Another thing here is that England doesn't have a strong tradition of representing titles in arms, unlike Scotland and Germany, that and the fact most of the titles don't really have arms, makes combining them all a difficult task.


They're not actual arms that were ever officially used in any way by the Prince. It was just an attempt by Boutell to show the Prince's titles in an heraldic way. Boutell did for example decry the fact the ancient Arms of Wales were not included in the full achievement of the Prince of Wales, and they were in fact included in the Arms of the later Edward VIII a few years later in 1910 (and are presently also borne in this way by Prince Charles).

As for the Saxon titles, the only titles that Edward VIII as Prince of Wales did use were 'Duke of Saxony, Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha', dynasts of the Ducal House did not use the full titulary of the reigning Duke.

The other arms referring to Scotland and Ireland are in fact not repeated but are each differenced by a label of three points Argent. They refer to the titles Duke of Rothesay in regards to Scotland and Earl of Dublin as regards Ireland.

You are correct in the fact that Arms pertaining to titles are very rarely borne this way in England, Wales or Ireland, but it is common in Scotland: bearing in mind that feudalism survived a lot longer in Scotland (it wasn't abolished until 2000-at least in theory-in Scotland) than the rest of the country (feudalism being to all intents and purposes abolished in England and Wales with the restoration of Charles II in 1660). A good example of such arms borne in this way are the arms of the Marquess of Lothian.

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Edward Hillenbrand
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Re: The arms of the Prince of Wales?

Postby Edward Hillenbrand » 12 May 2013, 22:58

Ahhh... KISS principle? Keep It Simple Scholar. ; )
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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: The arms of the Prince of Wales?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 12 May 2013, 23:44

Edward Hillenbrand wrote:Ahhh... KISS principle? Keep It Simple Scholar. ; )


I agree, but it can be an interesting intellectual exercise, and possibly a good way to fill a wall.


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