Page 1 of 1

KMM Conquest : "lifetime arms"

Posted: 29 Sep 2017, 16:06
by Arthur Radburn
Image

These arms -- or, rather the terms of the grant -- are currently under discussion on other fora, but there's no reason why we shouldn't discuss them here too.

They have just been granted by Lord Lyon to Mr Kevin Conquest of Arizona USA. What makes them interesting is that this is a "lifetime grant", i.e. the arms are not hereditary.

As explained on LL's facebook page (though not by Lyon Office itself), a "lifetime grant" is for someone who has "a significant connection to Scotland or the diaspora," but doesn't "sufficiently come under the Lord Lyon's jurisdiction for a heritable grant of arms."

Re: KMM Conquest : "lifetime arms"

Posted: 29 Sep 2017, 16:09
by Chris Green
Lord Lyon is making it up "on the hoof" - again.

Re: KMM Conquest : "lifetime arms"

Posted: 29 Sep 2017, 21:54
by Mark Henderson
Would this grant be for being a piper with a clan or other organization? I could not read the wording form the photo.

Re: KMM Conquest : "lifetime arms"

Posted: 30 Sep 2017, 07:28
by Chris Green
Mark Henderson wrote:Would this grant be for being a piper with a clan or other organization? I could not read the wording form the photo.


The drum-majors' batons crossed in saltire hint at a connection with a band.

The gold trophy with an eagle holding a maple leaf suggests a victory over Canada.

"Et Duxit Modo" I think means "And only he has led", which suggests the leader of some sort of organisation.

And lo! His FB presence has a picture of his as Drum Major of a well-equipped pipe band and he seems to be connected with the US Coastguard as an auxiliary, though not clear whether the band is too.

PS: I think the band is the Mesa (Arizona) Pipe Band.

Re: KMM Conquest : "lifetime arms"

Posted: 30 Sep 2017, 14:33
by Mark Henderson
Excellent observation. Thanks!

Re: KMM Conquest : "lifetime arms"

Posted: 30 Sep 2017, 15:18
by JMcMillan
Chris Green wrote:Lord Lyon is making it up "on the hoof" - again.


Yup. Heraldic entropy at work.

Re: KMM Conquest : "lifetime arms"

Posted: 30 Sep 2017, 20:09
by Michael F. McCartney
To my mind, the "lifetime" restriction is (and should be) effectively limited to barring use by descendants within Lyon's territorial jurisdiction; and any non-Scottish jurisdictions that choose to apply it within their own limits. Otherwise, it's merely a quaint aberration from the generally accepted International understanding that arms, by their very nature, are hereditary; otherwise they are merely personal badges or logos masquerading as arms

Re: KMM Conquest : "lifetime arms"

Posted: 02 Oct 2017, 10:22
by Bruce E Weller
It seems to be something of a gamble as to whether the cost of "renewal" will be acceptable to any heir and then, whether the heir will still have an acceptable link in terms of the grant. Almost seems to be encouraging assumption rather than registration.

Re: KMM Conquest : "lifetime arms"

Posted: 04 Oct 2017, 14:04
by Martin Goldstraw
Bruce E Weller wrote:Almost seems to be encouraging assumption rather than registration.


Assumption may be an option for the armiger in his own country but this is not an option in Scotland.

Re: KMM Conquest : "lifetime arms"

Posted: 04 Oct 2017, 16:57
by Chris Green
Martin Goldstraw wrote:
Bruce E Weller wrote:Almost seems to be encouraging assumption rather than registration.


Assumption may be an option for the armiger in his own country but this is not an option in Scotland.


But he doesn't live in Scotland. Virtually everyone else in the US assumes arms. In this case, Mr Conquest's heirs would have to assume the arms which he has now been granted "for life".