17th Century Coronet?

Scottish Heraldry
O. Wrigley-P.-McKerr
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17th Century Coronet?

Postby O. Wrigley-P.-McKerr » 22 May 2018, 11:08

I found this in an old book. I think the arms belong to an early Laird of Grandtully (Lords of Lorne, Drummond-Stewart baronets).

What kind of coronet is this?
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Ton de Witte
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Re: 17th Century Coronet?

Postby Ton de Witte » 23 May 2018, 21:20

looks like an earls coronet, 5 pearls and 4 leaves.
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O. Wrigley-P.-McKerr
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Re: 17th Century Coronet?

Postby O. Wrigley-P.-McKerr » 28 May 2018, 10:38

Ton de Witte wrote:looks like an earls coronet, 5 pearls and 4 leaves.


Well spotted, but I can't find an earl who was entitled to these arms. The Stewarts held the earldoms of Lennox, Carrick, Castle Stewart, Orkney and Menteith. The boat quarters seem to be related to Orkney.

I have found a better picture of the arms as they appear in St. Mary's Chapel, Grandtully. The Earl of Atholl's arms are painted in the same chapel with a different coronet from the Laird of Grandtully's.
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Ton de Witte
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Re: 17th Century Coronet?

Postby Ton de Witte » 28 May 2018, 13:42

perhaps a case of an artist copying a picture and not omiting the crown as would be the right thing to do.
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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: 17th Century Coronet?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 12 Sep 2018, 18:36

Since the Earl of Atholl's arms has a different coronet, perhaps it is meant to be a laird's coronet. Which would be an innovation by the artist.

The lymphad is very common, especially to indicate ownership of island fiefs, such as the Lordship of the Isle, Lorne and Arran. All those at one point belonged to a Stewart. Since the Stewarts ruled Scotland a long time, certain territorial earldoms were repeatedly granted to Stewarts and returned to the crown.

The buckles belong to the Stewarts of Darnley, and probably indicates descent from John Stewart of Bonkyll. Several descendants of Stewart of Bonkyll became Earls.

What is weird is the Fess is Gules.

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Martin Goldstraw
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Re: 17th Century Coronet?

Postby Martin Goldstraw » 13 Sep 2018, 11:44

Ryan Shuflin wrote:Since the Earl of Atholl's arms has a different coronet, perhaps it is meant to be a laird's coronet. Which would be an innovation by the artist.



There is of course no such thing as a "Laird's Coronet"; no one so lowly as a mere land owner, even if in possession of a barony, would ever have qualified for a coronet under the strict regime imposed in Scotland.

Perleese let's not start a rumor that there is any sort precedence for a laird's coronet in Scotland or else we'll start to see those who reside outwith Scotland, who don't fall under the restrictions imposed by any Lord Lyon but have been foolish enough to believe that paying a few meager pounds to purchase a worthless "souvenir plot" of one square foot entitles them to call themselves laird of somewhere, insisting that they have a right to use a coronet in their achievement!!!!!
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Cheshire Heraldry
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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: 17th Century Coronet?

Postby Michael F. McCartney » 13 Sep 2018, 15:30

What he said.

Especially when the example presented here is pretty clearly a unique bit of "creative" so-so artwork copied in one book. If there had been any such genuine phenomenon as a Laird's coronet, there would be numerous examples by known artists or writers over the centuries.
Michael F. McCartney
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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: 17th Century Coronet?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 15 Sep 2018, 14:01

I know that there is no such thing, I just wondered if the artist decided to make it up, perhaps inspired by noble coronets used on the continent?

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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: 17th Century Coronet?

Postby Michael F. McCartney » 17 Sep 2018, 07:59

That's quite possible!
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Fremont, California


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