Sellar hatchment

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Arthur Radburn
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Sellar hatchment

Postby Arthur Radburn » 31 Mar 2019, 16:08

David Sellar, who was Lord Lyon King of arms from 2008 to 2014, died recently. This is the hatchment that was painted for his funeral :

Hatchment - David Sellar 2019 - Copy.jpg

It shows his arms marshalled with those of the Lyon Office, even though he had retired from that office nearly five years earlier. This seems unusual. Does the privilege of marshalling the arms of office continue for life, or is this an instance of artistic licence? Does anyone here know?
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Chris Green
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Re: Sellar hatchment

Postby Chris Green » 31 Mar 2019, 16:21

I must say that I would read the hatchment as LL having died in office.
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Re: Sellar hatchment

Postby Chris Green » 01 Apr 2019, 06:42

Interestingly the blog of the Lyon Court refers to the death of "Lyon Sellar", but earlier mentions the death of a "former Garter King of Arms".
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Martin Goldstraw
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Re: Sellar hatchment

Postby Martin Goldstraw » 01 Apr 2019, 09:30

Chris Green wrote:Interestingly the blog of the Lyon Court refers to the death of "Lyon Sellar", but earlier mentions the death of a "former Garter King of Arms".

I often get the impression, with Lyons, that they make it up as they go along!!
Perhaps they [Lyon Court] are making a subtle attempt to elevate the position of Lyon to a similar level of that of Presidents of the United States.
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Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Sellar hatchment

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 01 Apr 2019, 14:37

Are the other hatchments of former Lord Lyons that would provide a precedence?

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Michael F. McCartney
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Re: Sellar hatchment

Postby Michael F. McCartney » 06 Apr 2019, 09:25

Martin wrote,
" Perhaps they [Lyon Court] are making a subtle attempt to elevate the position of Lyon to a similar level of that of Presidents of the United States"

FWIW, continuing to label a former official with his/her former job title isn't, in the US, limited to former Presidents. It's also commonly done for former Goverrnors, military officers (in some limited contexts, I'm still Lieutenant McCartney - or occasionally Captain, based on a purely paperwork promotion as an inactive Reserve officer :) - even though I ceased to be either rank in the early 1970's), mayors, Senators and Members (Federal and State level), etc. Whether that's entirely kosher I can't say (well, in my case it's as kosher as a ham sandwich...)
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Re: Sellar hatchment

Postby Chris Green » 06 Apr 2019, 12:33

In the UK army officers of the rank of major and above (captain in the Guards) may still use their rank following retirement, but the practice is virtually extinct. I suspect it was most common during the years between the two World Wars.
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Re: Sellar hatchment

Postby Stephen J F Plowman » 08 Apr 2019, 10:09

Stephen J F Plowman wrote:
Chris Green wrote:In the UK army officers of the rank of major and above (captain in the Guards) may still use their rank following retirement, but the practice is virtually extinct. I suspect it was most common during the years between the two World Wars.


I think it very much depends upon what they are doing following retirement from the armed forces. If you look at City of London Livery Companies and the Inns of Court you will find military ranks amongst the clerks and assorted other posts.

As a retired TA/Reservist officer my "use" of Major is very much confined to Regimental Associations and the Victory Services Club.
Last edited by Stephen J F Plowman on 08 Apr 2019, 12:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sellar hatchment

Postby Chris Green » 08 Apr 2019, 13:35

Here in Sweden I could call myself "Konsul Green", but that too has a very old-fashioned ring to it.
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Re: Sellar hatchment

Postby JMcMillan » 14 Apr 2019, 00:28

The tombstone of Lyon Innes of Learney is carved with his marshalled arms of office, and he had retired a couple of years before his death. Whatever logic entitled him to impale the arms of office would apply equally to Sellar's hatchment.

Image
Source: findagrave.com
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