Countries with an establshed nobility?

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Torsten Laneryd
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Re: Countries with an establshed nobility?

Postby Torsten Laneryd » 22 May 2013, 09:33

As far as I know they are no longer recognised under law.

Ryan Shuflin
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Re: Countries with an establshed nobility?

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 22 May 2013, 14:16

As I understand it in France while the nobility has no rights, the rights to titles and arms are protected by law and only Austria bans titles. Other kingdoms turned republics are less consistent. I don't know of any monarchy that still in practice gives hereditary titles/noble status to people not a part of the Royal family. Maybe Spain?

Jonathan Webster
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Re: Countries with an establshed nobility?

Postby Jonathan Webster » 22 May 2013, 15:25

Ryan Shuflin wrote:I don't know of any monarchy that still in practice gives hereditary titles/noble status to people not a part of the Royal family. Maybe Spain?


I'm not particularly interested in whether the noble title is hereditary or not, just

a. Whether there is an nobility established as a separate group from your ordinary citizens (like the peerage is in the UK)

and b. (although only if secondary interest) whether titles of nobility are still awarded and if not whether the monarch or government still could in theory.

As regards countries that still award noble titles, the UK most definitely still does (several life baronies being created this year alone), although no hereditary peerage has been created since Harold Macmillan was created Earl of Stockton in 1986. The King of the Belgians still confers noble titles to people outside the royal family on an annual basis, as does the King of Spain. Not sure about any others. There hasn't been any nobles created in Sweden since 1902, in San Marino since 1983, and the Holy See/Vatican City hasn't granted any since the earlier part of the 20th century.

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Ton de Witte
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Re: Countries with an establshed nobility?

Postby Ton de Witte » 23 May 2013, 09:15

The last enoblement of a commoner in the Netherlands was in 1936, the practice was formally abolished in the law on nobility. There was an article in the constitution proclaiming that the King could enoble but with the revision of the constitution in 1983 this was made an aditional article until such time a new law on the nobility was created.
Since 1936 citizens have been recognised as nobles if they had foreign titles (this also included foreigners who obtained Dutch nationality), or if they had a right to a title in some way, the new law of the nobility restricted these things.
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Jonathan Webster
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Re: Countries with an establshed nobility?

Postby Jonathan Webster » 23 May 2013, 14:10

But the dutch nobility still exists as a separate legally established...thing?

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Ton de Witte
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Re: Countries with an establshed nobility?

Postby Ton de Witte » 23 May 2013, 16:13

They do, but other the the title, or prefix for the untitled nobles, there are no further privileges to belonging to the nobility.
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Jonathan Webster
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Re: Countries with an establshed nobility?

Postby Jonathan Webster » 23 May 2013, 20:48

I'm not really bothered whether they have special privileges or not, I nust want to know whether they are recognised in law, rather than informally as in Germany and Austria.

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Chas Charles-Dunne
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Re: Countries with an establshed nobility?

Postby Chas Charles-Dunne » 23 May 2013, 22:22

Jonathan Webster wrote:I'm not really bothered whether they have special privileges or not, I nust want to know whether they are recognised in law, rather than informally as in Germany and Austria.


It is my understanding that titles were legally abolished by the Weimar Republic and that Graf Hochstein is only called as such because he has changed his name. I don't think that there is any recognition formal or informal.
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Jonathan Webster
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Re: Countries with an establshed nobility?

Postby Jonathan Webster » 23 May 2013, 22:51

More or less; they just become part of the full name: for example "Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia has the full name "Georg Friedrich Prinz von Preussen", rather than actually having the title "Prinz von Preussen". But in theory, all German citizens are equal. Austrian law outlaws the use of titles and the word 'von' in names, but the names are used in a similar way to Germany, and the word 'von' in practice is still used in names.

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Ton de Witte
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Re: Countries with an establshed nobility?

Postby Ton de Witte » 24 May 2013, 09:14

Jonathan Webster wrote:I'm not really bothered whether they have special privileges or not, I nust want to know whether they are recognised in law, rather than informally as in Germany and Austria.


They are recognised in law and there is the Hoge Raad van Adel (High council of the Nobility) which is a state entity that deals with who is a noble, the coat of arms that they have and more of such things.
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