Post removed.

General heraldry discussion forums covering all nations of the world.
User avatar
JMcMillan
Posts: 520
Joined: 13 Jul 2012, 22:33
Location: United States

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Postby JMcMillan » 28 Oct 2014, 12:20

andrewkerensky wrote:Well I have asked the DAR request team if they can help me with a design. I do have a fairly straight forward design. It shouldn't really be a difficult design. I basically have 2 elements and a shield, i'd just like the elements to be tastefully done. The shield to be perhaps 16th century or 'Swiss' in design. If I can't move my project forward i'll hire a tattoo artist (i'm informed they are pretty good with Shield design.)


I'm not explaining myself very well. If you haven't settled on the basic design of the arms--i.e., what is on the shield, conceptually and not in artistic detail?--then it's premature to be worrying about the shape of the shield for one particular emblazonment. Once the arms are settled, you can have them painted, carved, engraved, or tattooed on a plain 13th century heater, an Italian horse-head, an 18th century spade, or a rococo cartouche.

I personally don't see anything particularly wrong with the sackbut and thistle, although thistles are sort of hackneyed as symbols of "I have Scottish ancestors." (You may have some other reason for using a thistle, of course, and in any event they're your arms.) But if I were advising, I'd suggest simply a sackbut and nothing else. It would fit well either vertically or bendwise. It's distinctive and certainly not over-used.

Maybe I'm not fully understanding: are you committed to the design "Per chevron a sackbut fesswise and a thistle"? If so, I don't understand why there's still anything to discuss with the SABH or the IAAH design team. What am I missing?
Joseph McMillan
Alexandra, Virginia, USA

User avatar
JMcMillan
Posts: 520
Joined: 13 Jul 2012, 22:33
Location: United States

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Postby JMcMillan » 30 Oct 2014, 22:26

It looks very nice in color. The blazon is very straightforward: Per chevron Vert and Or in chief a sackbut fesswise Or and in base a thistle slipped and leaved proper. Or, alternatively, Per chevron Vert a sackbut fesswise and Or a thistle slipped and leaved proper.
Joseph McMillan
Alexandra, Virginia, USA

User avatar
Chris Green
Posts: 2592
Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 13:06
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Postby Chris Green » 31 Oct 2014, 06:57

One thing perplexes me. Why "Blue-throated nightingale"? Your crest depicts the Bluethroat (luscinia svecica) which is a flycatcher not a nightingale.

http://www.oiseaux-birds.com/card-bluethroat.html
Chris Green
IAAH President

Apohypaton

Ryan Shuflin
Posts: 481
Joined: 26 Jul 2012, 13:00
Location: Germany

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Postby Ryan Shuflin » 03 Nov 2014, 16:43

Swedish nightingale refers to an opera singer in English. However, the scientific name: luscinia svecica can be translated as Swedish nightingale. Luscinia is the genus to which nightingale belong, which is part of the family of flycatchers. Either way, blue-throated nightingale is a confusing description. I would use bluethroat for the blazon. So for the crest: a bluethroat perched and wings closed Proper I think using the clearly avian terms perched and wings, will make sure the reader knows it is a bird and not a human throat Azure.

User avatar
Chris Green
Posts: 2592
Joined: 10 Jul 2012, 13:06
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Postby Chris Green » 03 Nov 2014, 16:53

It just occurred to me you live in Sweden so you would be able to confirm if the Bluethroat is regarded as the Swedish Nightingale...


No. The Swedish name is "Blåhake" which translates as .... you guessed it .... "Bluethroat".

The Swedish Nightingale was Jenny Lind.
Chris Green
IAAH President

Apohypaton

User avatar
JMcMillan
Posts: 520
Joined: 13 Jul 2012, 22:33
Location: United States

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Postby JMcMillan » 03 Nov 2014, 22:27

Ryan Shuflin wrote:So for the crest: a bluethroat perched and wings closed Proper I think using the clearly avian terms perched and wings, will make sure the reader knows it is a bird and not a human throat Azure.


Nothing wrong with this blazon, but the more normal and concise form would be simply "A bluethroat close proper." That doesn't help as much with distinguishing it from the human throat, but given the confusion over the species, it might be advisable to insert "Luscinia svecica" in the blazon in any case. "A bluethroat (Luscinia svecica) close proper."

But in any case I suspect Marcel and colleagues are capable of putting together a correct blazon, even if they're not experts in ornithology.
Last edited by JMcMillan on 04 Nov 2014, 12:18, edited 1 time in total.
Joseph McMillan
Alexandra, Virginia, USA

User avatar
Arthur Radburn
Posts: 719
Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 09:56
Location: South Africa
Contact:

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Postby Arthur Radburn » 11 Nov 2014, 08:53

Regards
Arthur Radburn
IAAH Vice-President : Heraldic Education

User avatar
Martin Goldstraw
Site Admin
Posts: 1047
Joined: 21 Apr 2010, 17:27
Location: Shropshire, England.
Contact:

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Postby Martin Goldstraw » 12 Nov 2014, 09:57

Members may add their arms to the Gallery by sending the image and details to me (please use the type of details as set out in the other entries to keep it uniform). The image should ideally be approximately 500 pixels wide.
Martin Goldstraw
Cheshire Heraldry
http://cheshire-heraldry.org.uk

User avatar
Martin Goldstraw
Site Admin
Posts: 1047
Joined: 21 Apr 2010, 17:27
Location: Shropshire, England.
Contact:

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Postby Martin Goldstraw » 12 Nov 2014, 16:13

There are many sites on the internet where arms may be registered. I have a declared interest in one of them so I ought to resist promoting it.
Martin Goldstraw
Cheshire Heraldry
http://cheshire-heraldry.org.uk

User avatar
Arthur Radburn
Posts: 719
Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 09:56
Location: South Africa
Contact:

Re: South African Bureau of Heraldry

Postby Arthur Radburn » 18 Nov 2014, 09:51

andrewkerensky wrote:So good to hear that the Court of Lyon recognise the BoH as a legitimate body in respect to Heraldry and the registration there of.
Why wouldn't they? It's an official heraldry authority that operates under an Act of Parliament.

The Lord Lyon is evidently very courteous towards foreign heraldry authorities. Not only will he not "invade' England heraldically but, for the past two or three years, his website has stated that he won't grant arms to people in Canada or South Africa, because they have their own heraldry authorities. Interestingly, he doesn't mention Kenya or Zimbabwe, which are also Commonwealth countries with their own heraldry authorities (of sorts).
Regards
Arthur Radburn
IAAH Vice-President : Heraldic Education


Return to “Heraldry”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest